Switching to LEDs: need some advice

Hi schase,
I replaced all of my old bulbs with LED replacements over a 6 mth period..... last year.
The main thing to remember about LED's is that they run much cooler than incandescent bulbs. I do not think that you will have any problems with fitting them into enclosed fittings. I must admit that I don't have any in any enclosed fittings.
I have replaced every bulb except the cooker and fridge.

hi schase
you need to be mindful of clearances with the g6 and possibly the g4 (are the g4 12v? Have you checked?)

Some of the LED replacements are longer.I don't think you'll have a problem with heat in any of the fittings.
What length is the fluoro? 1800?(or 6ft) That will cost the most.

The dimmers may not work properly even with LED dimmables, I'd start with just 1 to test.

I hesitate to recommend but I used a store called Ranpo on ebay, the lamps seem OK, not expensive but long delivery as from china.
TBH they are almost cheap enough not to worry too much, but more than halogens which are getting cheaper as stock clears.
You didn't say whether the Dining are dimmable, the same comment applies as above re dimmer.

hi schase
I think you're over worrying about the potential heat issues, especially since, apart from the bathroom, the lamps are relatively low wattage. Furthermore they aren't that expensive, you can get a 100W equivalent BC or ES for a few £, so if the worst happens and it fails no great loss. I've had one dodgy BC 60W out of about 10 so far, but only one is enclosed and that's OK.
Your fluoro fitting almost certainly won't be producing 5200 lumens, (I don't care what the theoretical spec says) I'm betting it's nearer 4000 - 4500 if that, or you have a terribly bright kitchen. Have you done any measurements? (but I agree price gap is big)
Easy though it is for me to say you're over thinking it, (as I'm the world's worst offender), just get some cheapies from ebay and give it a go. I bought a few different types just to try and they haven't disappointed. (Converted my anglepoise with one, but that's work in progress as could be brighter).
As far as fittings without replaceable lamps goes I absolutely agree, but I was screwed as I had to fill existing large holes in the ceiling so had to get all-in-one fittings. I bought some spares, one out of 19 has failed so far.

All my other fittings have es to gu10 adapters and have gu10's (with space round as lamp too small for fitting (good ventilation but looks not great)
The situation with GU10/MR16 type 50mm size fittings is easier, there are all-in-one similar sized fittings but thankfully there are also many others where the lamp is replaceable. The all-in ones - I think - have better fire rating in some cases?
I'd increase the equivalent wattage in dining room if you can. (go slightly more rather than less - those 10w halogens don't produce much light, but good in the winter)

schase;31337:
​I should note that I did a lot of research: taking an inventory of every light fixture/existing bulb, searching for potential replacements with comparable brightness online, noting/comparing wattages, with some purchases at B&Q and Screwfix. I now have a very comprehensive spreadsheet!

The key point I was trying to make with the post is the issue of enclosure rated bulbs, which seems not to be highlighted by vendors, with the buying public remaining ignorant. Despite what I've read online (see links below), I've not seen anything in packaging or online descriptions that says yea or nay for any particular bulb. Here are a couple of pages addressing the issue:

https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/79466/why-do-my-led-bulbs-state-not-for-use-in-totally-enclosed-luminaires
https://blog.1000bulbs.com/home/what-is-an-enclosed-fixture-rating
​
@woz, thanks for the marked up image with dimensions and highlighting some of the other points. Dimensions for the G4 capsules very important, as LED capsules tend to be bigger than their halogen counterparts. I had gone through this process for the dining fixture and did find one LED capsule that would fit. But of course no mention of whether it was suitable for enclosed fixtures.

The fixtures for the capsule bulbs are all 12V.

Dimmable bulbs are less an issue for me, as the only fixtures which need dimmable bulbs are two of the desk lamps, which have a hi/lo intensity switch.

I think the tube (5 ft) will need to remain as fluorescent until such time as I remodel, as I've not found T8 5 ft LEDs, only T5. And the fluorescents are almost as efficient as LEDs--and likely much cheaper.

I also have concerns about the throwaway culture the industry is promoting, i.e. selling fixtures with sealed LED bulbs, meaning the fixture likely gets tossed once the bulb burns out. B&Q sells such fixtures that could be a comparable replacement for my bathroom fixture, but I'll do anything to avoid buying such a fixture.

More field research needed! :eek:

Interesting the thread.

First thing I did when I moved in our first house (2007) was replace all the bulbs with LED (apart from the kitchen strip light). Didn’t really need to worry about heat anywhere but needed to be cautious of the size in some fittings. I’m sure the energy savings were significant.

In the house were on now over a year I replaced with smart bulbs. I should really look at the energy savings here too but a lot of it was for easy control. And being able to ensure all lights were off when we left the house etc.

One we haven’t done yet is the main bathroom. And because the switch is on the outside it often gets left on. That’s next to change. The en-suite has a Philips hue light unit that does have a built in LED strip - but I expect that to last a LONG time.

It is the halogen bulbs that have the heat issues and are dangerous. A colleague checked his recessed ceiling lights to find all the wires feeding each one were breaking down in proximity to the fixture due to the heat given off by the halogen bulb. He rewired and replaced with LED GU10s.

I have LEDs throughout. No problems with heat no matter what sort of enclosure they are in. The bulb is not too hot to hold when it has been on, unlike other types of old. They last a long time and yes when I first installed them a couple of years ago there seemed to be a drop in consumption. After all if a 3 watt led puts out the same light as a 60 watt tungsten there is bound to be a saving. Apart from a couple of lights where I cannot get a compatible Hue bulb to fit, all my bulbs are Hue bulbs. Not cheap but they are lasting well. Plus of course one can change the colours. Indeed there is an app that does this automatically to music. My grand children are in awe when I set the fireworks display running!

If a user has a dimmer switch make sure the LED bulb is compatible. With a dimmer switch there is constant power, normally at such a low level that the bulb does not light up but some leds will as they only need low power to start with. Until I changed my kitchen light switch from a dimming one to a normal on/off I Had to install a resistor in the circuit for under unit led strip lights for they would otherwise come in or start flashing.

- - - Updated - - -

Types of bulb.

There is a wide choice. I use G4 LEDS instead of the halogen ones. I think the g4s are horrible with their two prongs! But...

TAKE CARE with G4s though, some may not be 240 volt but look the same. My desk light needs a 12 volt for there is a transformer built into its base. My cooker hood lights looked very much like g4 12 volts. The description on them was so poor you could not read it. Err.... they weren’t 12 volt when I tried to replace one!

LEDs now come in all shapes and sizes. I just wish the Philips Hue range included the small golf ball bulbs. You should not find much problem finding equivalent replacement. An internet search brings up many suppliers.

Warm white I have found is better. The basic white can be a little harsh although you get used to it. It is why I went for Hue bulbs as they are controllable from an app, which also configures routines etc. Such is my laziness at night that nowadays I just say “Hey Siri, Good Night” and all my lights go off.

That has to be the quote of the year....

​Good luck fitting the sensors in the toilet bowl.

G4RHL;31401:
The best solution for a bathroom, WC or en suite is a motion sensitive switch!

woz;31407:
That has to be the quote of the year....

​Good luck fitting the sensors in the toilet bowl.

so many answers that I probably should refrain from ... 😃

I made the original post to stimulate discussion and clarify my thinking on this issue--not as straightforward as one would expect, given the hype. My conclusions:

• For some fixtures, there are no ideal LED replacements. Manufacturers haven't produced suitable bulbs, e.g. not suitable for enclosed fixtures; too big for some fixtures; or no LED equivalent for the existing bulb type.
  
• LED capsules are larger than their halogen equivalents, so finding suitable replacements can be difficult, particularly if the bulb is in a small space.
  
• You can try using non enclosure rated bulbs in enclosed fixtures, but there's no guarantee how long they might last. This might not be any issue, or could depend on how long they are switched on at any one time.
  
• It's also important to consider how much any one lamp is actually used (I'm a minimalist in this regard, keeping most lights switched off at any one time). For some of my fixtures, it's probably cheaper to continue with existing bulbs (until they fail) than spend money I don't have to replace the entire fixture with one that takes LEDs.
  

My specifics: I am so miles away from even considering some of the new technology (e.g. hues, remote control, dimming). I don't need dimmable bulbs except for two of the desk lamps (hi/lo switches).

• Bathroom B22: in the absence of an enclosure-rated bulb, I'd go with a std non-enclosure rated bulb and hope for the best
  
• Dining G4 capsules: very hard to find any LED bulbs that might fit the small enclosures (enclosure rated or not). I'll keep looking...
  
• Desk lamps GY6.35 capsules: there are a handful of LED replacements; similar issues as with the G4, but larger spaces for the bulbs
  
• Kitchen G13 T8 fluorescent tube: no LED replacements for the tube yet found. Given the energy efficiency of the existing tube, I'll stick with this until it's time to remodel. The current tube's specs are OK (4000K, 5200 lumens or whatever it actually is); it could actually be a tad brighter or perhaps cooler (but not daylight). There are LED equivalents of this fixture (cf @Lenny), but the bulb is integrated, i.e. when the bulb fails the entire fixture must be replaced.
  

hi Schase
I've read your conclusions.

​Regarding the kitchen lamp -Link- there are lots of T8 1500 (5ft) led tubes, my guess is a 24W would be as good as if not better than the existing fluoro. B+Q & Screwfix have a return policy, not sure if it applies to lamps but you could try one and return it if unhappy. Lumens aren't everything, fluoros flicker especially when cold, and they take a long time to get to full brightness from cold. They are available cheaper trade, but postage kills it. B+Q one looks ideal 24W, 4000K, but the Screwfix one is cool white though.(search it)

Re the G4's, are you sure they are 12v (I did ask earlier I know), does that mean there is a transformer inside the fitting? It doesn't look like a 12V fitting to me.
THESE would fit, there are other sellers, they work out at just over £1 each (if 240v then HERE or HERE)

schase;31411:
I made the original post to stimulate discussion and clarify my thinking on this issue--not as straightforward as one would expect, given the hype. My conclusions:

• For some fixtures, there are no ideal LED replacements. Manufacturers haven't produced suitable bulbs, e.g. not suitable for enclosed fixtures; too big for some fixtures; or no LED equivalent for the existing bulb type.
  
• LED capsules are larger than their halogen equivalents, so finding suitable replacements can be difficult, particularly if the bulb is in a small space.
  
• You can try using non enclosure rated bulbs in enclosed fixtures, but there's no guarantee how long they might last. This might not be any issue, or could depend on how long they are switched on at any one time.
  
• It's also important to consider how much any one lamp is actually used (I'm a minimalist in this regard, keeping most lights switched off at any one time). For some of my fixtures, it's probably cheaper to continue with existing bulbs (until they fail) than spend money I don't have to replace the entire fixture with one that takes LEDs.
  

My specifics: I am so miles away from even considering some of the new technology (e.g. hues, remote control, dimming). I don't need dimmable bulbs except for two of the desk lamps (hi/lo switches).

• Bathroom B22: in the absence of an enclosure-rated bulb, I'd go with a std non-enclosure rated bulb and hope for the best
  
• Dining G4 capsules: very hard to find any LED bulbs that might fit the small enclosures (enclosure rated or not). I'll keep looking...
  
• Desk lamps GY6.35 capsules: there are a handful of LED replacements; similar issues as with the G4, but larger spaces for the bulbs
  
• Kitchen G13 T8 fluorescent tube: no LED replacements for the tube yet found. Given the energy efficiency of the existing tube, I'll stick with this until it's time to remodel. The current tube's specs are OK (4000K, 5200 lumens or whatever it actually is); it could actually be a tad brighter or perhaps cooler (but not daylight). There are LED equivalents of this fixture (cf @Lenny), but the bulb is integrated, i.e. when the bulb fails the entire fixture must be replaced.
  

​Thanks, @woz, for all of your suggestions.

WRT the G4, yes, the dining fixture is 12v (purchased at IKEA 10 years ago). I will check out your link (the capsules would just fit in the enclosure). The lower wattage one (3W) provides almost twice the output (180 lm) than my current halogens (10W, 100lm). Of course, if they're too bright, I could just put in half of the 8 bulbs the fixture takes--although it might look a little funny ;-)))

WRT the tubes, I believe I had seen the B&Q, Screwfix, and plenty of other tube listings, but had not considered them, as the rated outputs for all are around 2000-2400 lumens, less than half of that of my current fluorescent tube. This concerns me, and will require further investigation: is the light output measured differently for LED tubes than fluorescents? I might consider buying one if they do have a return policy, as you mention. Will need to check if tubes listed as 5ft, 1500mm, 1514mm, and 1524mm are actually the same size (I would guess the difference might be down to how the manufacturer measures).

woz;31413:

​Regarding the kitchen lamp -Link- there are lots of T8 1500 (5ft) led tubes, my guess is a 24W would be as good as if not better than the existing fluoro. B+Q & Screwfix have a return policy, not sure if it applies to lamps but you could try one and return it if unhappy. Lumens aren't everything, fluoros flicker especially when cold, and they take a long time to get to full brightness from cold. They are available cheaper trade, but postage kills it. B+Q one looks ideal 24W, 4000K, but the Screwfix one is cool white though.(search it)

Re the G4's, are you sure they are 12v (I did ask earlier I know), does that mean there is a transformer inside the fitting? It doesn't look like a 12V fitting to me.
THESE would fit, there are other sellers, they work out at just over £1 each (if 240v then HERE or HERE)

You can use an LED strip instead of a tube if the light is an under unit one. Whilst I have led tubes under units in my kitchen I do have in use elsewhere a Phillips Hue LED strip which you can either stick in place, it has a sticky back if you want to do it that way, or fix it in another way. The light is fine and colours can be changed. It does of course take up less space. I would only do this when I knew it was out of site as the bare strip is not attractive to look at but it was never so intended but to be part of concealed lighting.

Update on the G4 LED capsules. Still looking for advice; the discussion gets a bit technical...

I purchased the G4 capsules @woz had suggested (link here). They arrived very quickly, but are clearly dimmer than the halogens they are replacing, and too dim to use (I even used an iPhone app that gives some rough info on the lux). I don't know why this is the case, but posit some ideas below.

Note that the existing halogens are a combination of

• the original IKEA bulbs purchased with the fixture in 2009 (which I assumed were 100lm, 10w; now think they might actually be brighter)
  
• Diall bulbs purchased in 2016 from B&Q: 100lm, 10w, 2700K (they actually appear slightly dimmer and/or warmer than the IKEA bulbs)
  

The fixture currently operates with no dimmer, but the illumination is OK with the halogens.

The LEDs purchased (image uploaded) are supposed to be:
12v, COB, 3W, 180lm, warm white (2700-3200K), dimmable

Possible reasons for the difference in illumination:

• Cheap manufacture
  
• Not what was ordered (there's nothing on the packaging and bulbs that shows wattage or lumens)
  
• dimmable LEDs perhaps are dimmer unless one uses a dimmer switch?
  

The capacitors on the LEDs appear to be model 156E, with the second line varying: N133K, N133P, N133U (perhaps a manufacturing batch #?).

Not fit for this purpose; I might try returning them, but am unsure about replacements (thus far I've only found one other LED that would fit (link); lower output and more expensive, but closer to the expected cost).

If I pursue this, should I forget about dimmable bulbs; consider cooler bulbs; higher lumens? I might just need to stick with the halogens until such time as the figure is replaced, as G4s short enough to fit into this fixture (about 30mm total) are rare :-(