• Quote Originally Posted by woz View Post
    @Marc
    ​Just a thought...Will the type of meter vary according to which DNO area you're in?
    Hey @woz
    Sorry for late reply. I had to check this one....
    The answer is no, the DNO doesn't have any impact on meter type.
    (There are some meters that seem to work better in the north region or the central/south region. We, like other energy companies, are finding this out!)
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

    ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​
    0
  • Quote Originally Posted by woz View Post
    @Marc
    ​Just a thought...Will the type of meter vary according to which DNO area you're in?
    Hey @woz
    Sorry for late reply. I had to check this one....
    The answer is no, the DNO doesn't have any impact on meter type.
    (There are some meters that seem to work better in the north region or the central/south region. We, like other energy companies, are finding this out!)
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

    ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​


  • @Angelabikerbabe @Duppy

    Thank you both for your pictures. It would seem they both and presumably others all use LCD displays for the figures for both gas and electricity. I get the impression that this type of display does not work with the Smappee gas monitor. (The Smappee electricity monitor would work as this is a standard clamp on the power cable and does not try to read the meter.)

    So for anyone else interested in trying to have an automated energy monitoring system the best approach is going to be my previously mentioned CAD approach.
    1
  • @Angelabikerbabe @Duppy

    Thank you both for your pictures. It would seem they both and presumably others all use LCD displays for the figures for both gas and electricity. I get the impression that this type of display does not work with the Smappee gas monitor. (The Smappee electricity monitor would work as this is a standard clamp on the power cable and does not try to read the meter.)

    So for anyone else interested in trying to have an automated energy monitoring system the best approach is going to be my previously mentioned CAD approach.


  • Hi, since my smart meter installation the IHD has only ever connected to the gas mater. Even when the engineer was showing me around the IHD it wasnt working and he advised it was something that needed to be done at the pure planet end to get it configured. It's been 3 weeks now so I'm guessing something is amiss. What's my best approach?

    Thanks
    Nick
    0
  • Hi, since my smart meter installation the IHD has only ever connected to the gas mater. Even when the engineer was showing me around the IHD it wasnt working and he advised it was something that needed to be done at the pure planet end to get it configured. It's been 3 weeks now so I'm guessing something is amiss. What's my best approach?

    Thanks
    Nick


  • Hi Chi3f,

    I heard that there are industry glitches not necessarily down to Pure Planet affecting signals in certain areas.
    But don't listen to me because I could be wrong.

    In the first instance best to contact PP directly and get the members service team to advise current situ.
    So advance to the APP - open help - open ask wattBot - first type "Message the Team and post your question.
    Look back in the APP in couple of days for a response, may be sooner but its the weekend.

    Marc the community manager regularly provides updates on smart meters so there maybe something of interest to catch up with. Plus theres some interesting exchanges between Mr Smart and other members regarding this topic, so have gander at these posts.

    Good luck, look out for more feed back and enjoy the sun
    Last edited by Strutt G; 22-06-19 at 16:18.
    0
  • Hi Chi3f,

    I heard that there are industry glitches not necessarily down to Pure Planet affecting signals in certain areas.
    But don't listen to me because I could be wrong.

    In the first instance best to contact PP directly and get the members service team to advise current situ.
    So advance to the APP - open help - open ask wattBot - first type "Message the Team and post your question.
    Look back in the APP in couple of days for a response, may be sooner but its the weekend.

    Marc the community manager regularly provides updates on smart meters so there maybe something of interest to catch up with. Plus theres some interesting exchanges between Mr Smart and other members regarding this topic, so have gander at these posts.

    Good luck, look out for more feed back and enjoy the sun


  • Quote Originally Posted by BigChi3f View Post
    Hi, since my smart meter installation the IHD has only ever connected to the gas mater. Even when the engineer was showing me around the IHD it wasnt working and he advised it was something that needed to be done at the pure planet end to get it configured. It's been 3 weeks now so I'm guessing something is amiss. What's my best approach?

    Thanks
    Nick
    Hi @BigChi3f
    I've just posted over here about the IHD issue being reported by some Members. It's got some useful troubleshooting tips, and also how to let us know if it still doesn't sort it.
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

    ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​
    0
  • Quote Originally Posted by BigChi3f View Post
    Hi, since my smart meter installation the IHD has only ever connected to the gas mater. Even when the engineer was showing me around the IHD it wasnt working and he advised it was something that needed to be done at the pure planet end to get it configured. It's been 3 weeks now so I'm guessing something is amiss. What's my best approach?

    Thanks
    Nick
    Hi @BigChi3f
    I've just posted over here about the IHD issue being reported by some Members. It's got some useful troubleshooting tips, and also how to let us know if it still doesn't sort it.
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

    ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​


  • Is the comms hub on the network side of the meter? Ie the customer doesn't pay for the electricity it uses?
    0
  • Is the comms hub on the network side of the meter? Ie the customer doesn't pay for the electricity it uses?


  • I can only suppose it's on the supply side because it would revert to battery if the power was cut, but that is a wild guess.I think Mr Smart should supply a circuit diagram or block schematic then we can look for ourselves...
    Quote Originally Posted by talldave View Post
    Is the comms hub on the network side of the meter? Ie the customer doesn't pay for the electricity it uses?
    0
  • I can only suppose it's on the supply side because it would revert to battery if the power was cut, but that is a wild guess.I think Mr Smart should supply a circuit diagram or block schematic then we can look for ourselves...
    Quote Originally Posted by talldave View Post
    Is the comms hub on the network side of the meter? Ie the customer doesn't pay for the electricity it uses?


  • Is there a way to extend the IHD as the meters are reasonably far away and it can't connect with them from our flat, unfortunately.
    0
  • Is there a way to extend the IHD as the meters are reasonably far away and it can't connect with them from our flat, unfortunately.


  • hi thisperson
    There may be solutions but my take on this is it's down to the installers to make sure you have a properly working system. Walking away without offereing you some form of solution or help is unacceptable (of course there may not be a solution...)
    My advice is to put in a request via help for the installers to come back and find a way to fix it so it works (if there is a viable solution, perhaps configuring the transmit power or even a wired extension - who knows...)
    Go to help in app or online , type message the team and ask. Please will you keep us updated? This is interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by thisperson View Post
    Is there a way to extend the IHD as the meters are reasonably far away and it can't connect with them from our flat, unfortunately.
    0
  • hi thisperson
    There may be solutions but my take on this is it's down to the installers to make sure you have a properly working system. Walking away without offereing you some form of solution or help is unacceptable (of course there may not be a solution...)
    My advice is to put in a request via help for the installers to come back and find a way to fix it so it works (if there is a viable solution, perhaps configuring the transmit power or even a wired extension - who knows...)
    Go to help in app or online , type message the team and ask. Please will you keep us updated? This is interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by thisperson View Post
    Is there a way to extend the IHD as the meters are reasonably far away and it can't connect with them from our flat, unfortunately.


  • Quote Originally Posted by thisperson View Post
    Is there a way to extend the IHD as the meters are reasonably far away and it can't connect with them from our flat, unfortunately.
    The IHD and Comms Hub and Meters all communicate using the Zigbee wireless standard. With Zigbee each device acts as a repeater for others and forms a 'mesh' type network topology. However in this case the number of devices is small and all but the IHD are likely to be in the same single location so this does not help in terms of extending range.

    In a normal Zigbee setup it would be possible to get a dedicated Zigbee repeater although most people get a simple and very cheap Zigbee smart power socket like this - https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/tradfri...tlet-00364477/

    I believe this still may not help in this case because I believe all the Zigbee devices need to be configured as part of the same 'network' and you would not be able to add the standard Zigbee device to the smart meter network. Perhaps PurePlanet can confirm this.

    So, it seems hypothetically it would be possible but it might require the smart meter manufacturers to make a Zigbee repeater that can be officially joined to a customers smart meter HAN - Home Area Network. I have not been specifically looking but I strongly suspect that no such device yet exists.

    Since likely many customers will have this problem I feel that the manufacturers need to address this and provide such a repeater solution.

    Note: For security reasons the HAN used by smart meters only accepts devices that have been officially 'white listed' so generic Zigbee devices cannot be connected. They are supposed to allow the customer to connect their own devices as long as they are white listed, despite this some providers have been uncooperative and this is regarded as being in breach of the licensing terms for smart meters. (The whole point of smart meters is to facilitate connecting customer access devices.)

    @Marc I hope Pureplanet are going to be more cooperative about customers wanting to connect CAD type devices. Some customers have had to take OVO Energy to OFGEM and BEIS to get them to behave properly.
    Last edited by jelockwood; 03-07-19 at 11:45.
    1
  • Quote Originally Posted by thisperson View Post
    Is there a way to extend the IHD as the meters are reasonably far away and it can't connect with them from our flat, unfortunately.
    The IHD and Comms Hub and Meters all communicate using the Zigbee wireless standard. With Zigbee each device acts as a repeater for others and forms a 'mesh' type network topology. However in this case the number of devices is small and all but the IHD are likely to be in the same single location so this does not help in terms of extending range.

    In a normal Zigbee setup it would be possible to get a dedicated Zigbee repeater although most people get a simple and very cheap Zigbee smart power socket like this - https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/tradfri...tlet-00364477/

    I believe this still may not help in this case because I believe all the Zigbee devices need to be configured as part of the same 'network' and you would not be able to add the standard Zigbee device to the smart meter network. Perhaps PurePlanet can confirm this.

    So, it seems hypothetically it would be possible but it might require the smart meter manufacturers to make a Zigbee repeater that can be officially joined to a customers smart meter HAN - Home Area Network. I have not been specifically looking but I strongly suspect that no such device yet exists.

    Since likely many customers will have this problem I feel that the manufacturers need to address this and provide such a repeater solution.

    Note: For security reasons the HAN used by smart meters only accepts devices that have been officially 'white listed' so generic Zigbee devices cannot be connected. They are supposed to allow the customer to connect their own devices as long as they are white listed, despite this some providers have been uncooperative and this is regarded as being in breach of the licensing terms for smart meters. (The whole point of smart meters is to facilitate connecting customer access devices.)

    @Marc I hope Pureplanet are going to be more cooperative about customers wanting to connect CAD type devices. Some customers have had to take OVO Energy to OFGEM and BEIS to get them to behave properly.


  • On the IHD reset device option does this take the device back to the point after engineer set up?
    0
  • On the IHD reset device option does this take the device back to the point after engineer set up?


  • Quote Originally Posted by talldave View Post
    Is the comms hub on the network side of the meter? Ie the customer doesn't pay for the electricity it uses?
    Hi @talldave
    Just to let you know I'm chasing my colleagues in our smart team for an answer.
    The IHD and smart meter adds about £2 a year to your energy usage. More info on that in our FAQs section.
    We think the comms hub is included in that, but we're double-checking.
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

    ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​
    0
  • Quote Originally Posted by talldave View Post
    Is the comms hub on the network side of the meter? Ie the customer doesn't pay for the electricity it uses?
    Hi @talldave
    Just to let you know I'm chasing my colleagues in our smart team for an answer.
    The IHD and smart meter adds about £2 a year to your energy usage. More info on that in our FAQs section.
    We think the comms hub is included in that, but we're double-checking.
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

    ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​


  • Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Hi @talldave
    Just to let you know I'm chasing my colleagues in our smart team for an answer.
    The IHD and smart meter adds about £2 a year to your energy usage. More info on that in our FAQs section.
    We think the comms hub is included in that, but we're double-checking.
    Hey @talldave
    That's now confirmed.
    It's approx £2 a year to run the IHD, smart meter and comms hub.
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

    ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​
    0
  • Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Hi @talldave
    Just to let you know I'm chasing my colleagues in our smart team for an answer.
    The IHD and smart meter adds about £2 a year to your energy usage. More info on that in our FAQs section.
    We think the comms hub is included in that, but we're double-checking.
    Hey @talldave
    That's now confirmed.
    It's approx £2 a year to run the IHD, smart meter and comms hub.
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

    ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​


  • ...and that works out at around 1.6 watts for both. (seems low to me for 2 meters and an IHD) but possible, I think it will be a lot higher if the IHD screen is on a lot.
    The next story in the Daily Mail will be Smart Meters Costing Consumers £42m a year.
    (based on 20 million ish smart meters)
    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Hey @talldave
    That's now confirmed.
    It's approx £2 a year to run the IHD, smart meter and comms hub.
    0
  • ...and that works out at around 1.6 watts for both. (seems low to me for 2 meters and an IHD) but possible, I think it will be a lot higher if the IHD screen is on a lot.
    The next story in the Daily Mail will be Smart Meters Costing Consumers £42m a year.
    (based on 20 million ish smart meters)
    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Hey @talldave
    That's now confirmed.
    It's approx £2 a year to run the IHD, smart meter and comms hub.


  • Thanks @Marc for the reply

    The IHD is a customer device that they can decide to use or not use, so it's fair that the customer pays to power it.

    But it seems wrong that the customer is expected to power the meter and comms hub - that's part of the supplier's infrastructure. It's not the (trivial) cost, it's the principle.
    1
  • Thanks @Marc for the reply

    The IHD is a customer device that they can decide to use or not use, so it's fair that the customer pays to power it.

    But it seems wrong that the customer is expected to power the meter and comms hub - that's part of the supplier's infrastructure. It's not the (trivial) cost, it's the principle.


  • Looking on the bright side, simply by asking this question and the follow up debate, chances are you have earnt more than £2 in community points.
    But i see your point. For me if/when a 3phase smet2 meter becomes available the IHD will still be pointless as the meter is so far away that the range to the IHD will be too far for it to be visable to anybody.
    Quote Originally Posted by talldave View Post
    Thanks @Marc for the reply

    The IHD is a customer device that they can decide to use or not use, so it's fair that the customer pays to power it.

    But it seems wrong that the customer is expected to power the meter and comms hub - that's part of the supplier's infrastructure. It's not the (trivial) cost, it's the principle.
    1
  • Looking on the bright side, simply by asking this question and the follow up debate, chances are you have earnt more than £2 in community points.
    But i see your point. For me if/when a 3phase smet2 meter becomes available the IHD will still be pointless as the meter is so far away that the range to the IHD will be too far for it to be visable to anybody.
    Quote Originally Posted by talldave View Post
    Thanks @Marc for the reply

    The IHD is a customer device that they can decide to use or not use, so it's fair that the customer pays to power it.

    But it seems wrong that the customer is expected to power the meter and comms hub - that's part of the supplier's infrastructure. It's not the (trivial) cost, it's the principle.


  • Agreed and I don't understand the logic of this, if it's possible to disconnect the meter remotely and still maintain communications how can the comms supply be on the consumer side, unless it relies on batteries to communicate, and why would anyone design it that way? Put simply I don't (yet) believe the answer.
    Quote Originally Posted by talldave View Post
    Thanks @Marc for the reply

    The IHD is a customer device that they can decide to use or not use, so it's fair that the customer pays to power it.

    But it seems wrong that the customer is expected to power the meter and comms hub - that's part of the supplier's infrastructure. It's not the (trivial) cost, it's the principle.
    2
  • Agreed and I don't understand the logic of this, if it's possible to disconnect the meter remotely and still maintain communications how can the comms supply be on the consumer side, unless it relies on batteries to communicate, and why would anyone design it that way? Put simply I don't (yet) believe the answer.
    Quote Originally Posted by talldave View Post
    Thanks @Marc for the reply

    The IHD is a customer device that they can decide to use or not use, so it's fair that the customer pays to power it.

    But it seems wrong that the customer is expected to power the meter and comms hub - that's part of the supplier's infrastructure. It's not the (trivial) cost, it's the principle.


  • Quote Originally Posted by Jon1 View Post
    Looking on the bright side, simply by asking this question and the follow up debate, chances are you have earnt more than £2 in community points.
    But i see your point. For me if/when a 3phase smet2 meter becomes available the IHD will still be pointless as the meter is so far away that the range to the IHD will be too far for it to be visable to anybody.
    You'll need a Zigbee repeater. I thought the system was designed so that in blocks of flats a mesh network would be created to get the comms from upper floors down to ground level. You just need to recreate that through your property.

    Quote Originally Posted by woz View Post
    Agreed and I don't understand the logic of this, if it's possible to disconnect the meter remotely and still maintain communications how can the comms supply be on the consumer side, unless it relies on batteries to communicate, and why would anyone design it that way? Put simply I don't (yet) believe the answer.
    Whilst I have the utmost respect for @Marc and his research, I would also like to think that this isn't the case.
    Last edited by talldave; 08-07-19 at 19:06.
    0
  • Quote Originally Posted by Jon1 View Post
    Looking on the bright side, simply by asking this question and the follow up debate, chances are you have earnt more than £2 in community points.
    But i see your point. For me if/when a 3phase smet2 meter becomes available the IHD will still be pointless as the meter is so far away that the range to the IHD will be too far for it to be visable to anybody.
    You'll need a Zigbee repeater. I thought the system was designed so that in blocks of flats a mesh network would be created to get the comms from upper floors down to ground level. You just need to recreate that through your property.

    Quote Originally Posted by woz View Post
    Agreed and I don't understand the logic of this, if it's possible to disconnect the meter remotely and still maintain communications how can the comms supply be on the consumer side, unless it relies on batteries to communicate, and why would anyone design it that way? Put simply I don't (yet) believe the answer.
    Whilst I have the utmost respect for @Marc and his research, I would also like to think that this isn't the case.


  • I'm not casting aspersions on jon1's body here but I think he's spread outwards rather than upwards... ?
    Quote Originally Posted by talldave View Post
    You'll need a Zigbee repeater. I thought the system was designed so that in blocks of flats a mesh network would be created to get the comms from upper floors down to ground level. You just need to recreate that through your property.



    Whilst I have the utmost respect for @Marc and his research, I would also like to think that this isn't the case.
    0
  • I'm not casting aspersions on jon1's body here but I think he's spread outwards rather than upwards... ?
    Quote Originally Posted by talldave View Post
    You'll need a Zigbee repeater. I thought the system was designed so that in blocks of flats a mesh network would be created to get the comms from upper floors down to ground level. You just need to recreate that through your property.



    Whilst I have the utmost respect for @Marc and his research, I would also like to think that this isn't the case.


  • Quote Originally Posted by woz View Post
    I'm not casting aspersions on jon1's body here but I think he's spread outwards rather than upwards... ?
    LOL, I'm sure repeaters will cope with sideways as well as up and down. The serious point though is that whilst meters themselves might act as repeaters unless "the industry" has commissioned standalone repeaters, they won't exist.
    0
  • Quote Originally Posted by woz View Post
    I'm not casting aspersions on jon1's body here but I think he's spread outwards rather than upwards... ?
    LOL, I'm sure repeaters will cope with sideways as well as up and down. The serious point though is that whilst meters themselves might act as repeaters unless "the industry" has commissioned standalone repeaters, they won't exist.