• Membership fee in latest statement.

    Hi to all,
    I've just checked my latest statement which arrived today. Can someone explain how the membership fee is "actually" applied to the bill. I understand that it's £8.00 per fuel, however on my statement it shows it as £8.11 [this is the same amount as when the fee was £8.50 per fuel].
    Is it possible that the software has just simply not applied the correct /new membership fee ??
    I have a spreadsheet that I use to check/monitor my account, and it was obvious that my spreadsheet info and the statement didn't match.
    Do I need to utilise a formula to ascertain the monthly fee, as opposed to just using an £8.00 input.
    The formula would be......(8.00 x 12) ÷ 365 then multiplied by number of days per month/period. However by using this formula the fee for this statement would not be the £8.11 shown on my statement.

    Any ideas anyone
    Tap below to see the best answer
    Gray4276
    0
  • Hi to all,
    I've just checked my latest statement which arrived today. Can someone explain how the membership fee is "actually" applied to the bill. I understand that it's £8.00 per fuel, however on my statement it shows it as £8.11 [this is the same amount as when the fee was £8.50 per fuel].
    Is it possible that the software has just simply not applied the correct /new membership fee ??
    I have a spreadsheet that I use to check/monitor my account, and it was obvious that my spreadsheet info and the statement didn't match.
    Do I need to utilise a formula to ascertain the monthly fee, as opposed to just using an £8.00 input.
    The formula would be......(8.00 x 12) ÷ 365 then multiplied by number of days per month/period. However by using this formula the fee for this statement would not be the £8.11 shown on my statement.

    Any ideas anyone
    Tap below to see the best answer
    Gray4276


  • Best Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Hey @Gray4276
    I'm checking this out. Was it an email or a text message from us?
    Hi Marc, it was a text msg and contained a link to a response in Wotbot. I opened the link and Wotbot was blank and was expecting a question input from me. I then logged into my app and opened the help tab, and opened Wotbot and there was a response from Rosie which stated that my request had been passed to the "team" for investigation.....can you please expedite this for me asap
    Can I request that the following (recent) queries are addressed and a response initiated.
    1. Direct Debit changed in 'Balance & Payments'
    2. Increased Direct Debit payment taken (as above)
    3. Incorrect membership fee applied in latest statement/bill

    Sorry to hastle you......but I'm just trtrying to help PP sort out these little glitches in your systems to help PP to become even better at what you are already good at. Onwards and upwards 🕵️
    Gray4276
    0
  • Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Hey @Gray4276
    I'm checking this out. Was it an email or a text message from us?
    Hi Marc, it was a text msg and contained a link to a response in Wotbot. I opened the link and Wotbot was blank and was expecting a question input from me. I then logged into my app and opened the help tab, and opened Wotbot and there was a response from Rosie which stated that my request had been passed to the "team" for investigation.....can you please expedite this for me asap
    Can I request that the following (recent) queries are addressed and a response initiated.
    1. Direct Debit changed in 'Balance & Payments'
    2. Increased Direct Debit payment taken (as above)
    3. Incorrect membership fee applied in latest statement/bill

    Sorry to hastle you......but I'm just trtrying to help PP sort out these little glitches in your systems to help PP to become even better at what you are already good at. Onwards and upwards 🕵️
    Gray4276


  • Best Answer

    Hi everyone

    Here’s an update on what’s happening re the Membership Fee bug.

    To recap: Thanks to some eagle-eyed community members (you know who you are!) we discovered a bug in our billing software.
    It affects Members who’ve got a bill date of 29th, 30th or 31st of each month.
    We use a daily pro-rata system of calculating the Membership fee. Our billing system is currently set to correctly pro-rata the Membership fee for bills generated on days 1-28, but our investigations have found that a bug caused it to incorrectly calculate the daily rate for Members whose bill date is 29th, 30th or 31st of the month.
    It’s been out of sync for some time, which means that, depending on the number of days in a month, there are some months when a billing cycle doesn't match with a Member’s billing period.

    What’s happened since then:
    We’ve identified all the Members who have been affected. This is a small fraction of the number of Members we currently have on supply.
    We’ve reported the matter to Ofgem and we’re giving them regular updates.

    What’s happening next:
    We’re working on a fix for our billing system which will move all Pure Planet Members’ bill dates to fall on days 1-28 in any month.
    This means that any Member who currently has a bill day of 29th, 30th or 31st will be moved to a new billing date, either 28th, 1st or 2nd of each month.
    Moving to a 28-day billing cycle means that the current £8 a month per fuel Membership fee is correctly applied to all Members’ accounts using a standard pro-rata daily rate for each month.

    The implementation of this correction for our billing system is currently being planned and tested. In fact, this change was already being planned, because the move to smart meters requires all suppliers to use 28-day billing, given the Data and Communication Company’s (the Ofgem-appointed body in charge of the smart meter network and rollout) billing meter read cycle requires it. So, we’re just bringing this forward.

    What will happen after that:
    When the change to our billing system has been tested and is in place, all Members affected by the bug will receive a new statement and a credit to their account for the amount by which they have been incorrectly billed.
    We’re disappointed that this has happened, as we want our Members to be able to rely on the information we provide, but thankfully the original bills have only been out by a relatively small amount.
    The maximum amount any Member has been incorrectly billed is £1.50 and the average amount is less than £0.90.

    There are some Members who have been underbilled - these amounts will be waived.

    A small number of Members who’ve switched or moved out will be contacted by email and refunded.

    We’ll continue to send 12 monthly statements per year.

    I will of course update the community once we’re closer to introducing the new 28-day billing.

    Thanks again for spotting this bug and helping us with your feedback. It’s always appreciated.
    Last edited by Marc; 26-07-19 at 14:25. Reason: fixing weird formatting
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

    ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​
    4
  • Hi everyone

    Here’s an update on what’s happening re the Membership Fee bug.

    To recap: Thanks to some eagle-eyed community members (you know who you are!) we discovered a bug in our billing software.
    It affects Members who’ve got a bill date of 29th, 30th or 31st of each month.
    We use a daily pro-rata system of calculating the Membership fee. Our billing system is currently set to correctly pro-rata the Membership fee for bills generated on days 1-28, but our investigations have found that a bug caused it to incorrectly calculate the daily rate for Members whose bill date is 29th, 30th or 31st of the month.
    It’s been out of sync for some time, which means that, depending on the number of days in a month, there are some months when a billing cycle doesn't match with a Member’s billing period.

    What’s happened since then:
    We’ve identified all the Members who have been affected. This is a small fraction of the number of Members we currently have on supply.
    We’ve reported the matter to Ofgem and we’re giving them regular updates.

    What’s happening next:
    We’re working on a fix for our billing system which will move all Pure Planet Members’ bill dates to fall on days 1-28 in any month.
    This means that any Member who currently has a bill day of 29th, 30th or 31st will be moved to a new billing date, either 28th, 1st or 2nd of each month.
    Moving to a 28-day billing cycle means that the current £8 a month per fuel Membership fee is correctly applied to all Members’ accounts using a standard pro-rata daily rate for each month.

    The implementation of this correction for our billing system is currently being planned and tested. In fact, this change was already being planned, because the move to smart meters requires all suppliers to use 28-day billing, given the Data and Communication Company’s (the Ofgem-appointed body in charge of the smart meter network and rollout) billing meter read cycle requires it. So, we’re just bringing this forward.

    What will happen after that:
    When the change to our billing system has been tested and is in place, all Members affected by the bug will receive a new statement and a credit to their account for the amount by which they have been incorrectly billed.
    We’re disappointed that this has happened, as we want our Members to be able to rely on the information we provide, but thankfully the original bills have only been out by a relatively small amount.
    The maximum amount any Member has been incorrectly billed is £1.50 and the average amount is less than £0.90.

    There are some Members who have been underbilled - these amounts will be waived.

    A small number of Members who’ve switched or moved out will be contacted by email and refunded.

    We’ll continue to send 12 monthly statements per year.

    I will of course update the community once we’re closer to introducing the new 28-day billing.

    Thanks again for spotting this bug and helping us with your feedback. It’s always appreciated.
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

    ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​


  • Hi just read these answers to another members concerns yesterday..its just that the timing for the decrease will not match your billing period because all our billing periods are based on the date we joined:

    https://community.purepla.net/thread...6704#post26704
    0
  • Hi just read these answers to another members concerns yesterday..its just that the timing for the decrease will not match your billing period because all our billing periods are based on the date we joined:

    https://community.purepla.net/thread...6704#post26704


  • hi Gray4276
    good luck with this one, I gave up trying to work out how to get my extremely comprehensive spreadsheet to match, I've learnt to live with an approximate 10p discrepancy. I think it's monthly and based on 30.417 days in a month, then the daily single days are adjusted up or down as necessary, but I think (untested due to price changes) it does work out over a year.
    I've posted about this a few times. Sadly I'm not clever enough to emulate the system PP use, but if you come up with a formula that works let us know (hint, I've wasted hours on this and don't forget to add the 5%vat)
    If the rate changes the individual days are calculated or subtracted - I think.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray4276 View Post
    Hi to all,
    I've just checked my latest statement which arrived today. Can someone explain how the membership fee is "actually" applied to the bill. I understand that it's £8.00 per fuel, however on my statement it shows it as £8.11 [this is the same amount as when the fee was £8.50 per fuel].
    Is it possible that the software has just simply not applied the correct /new membership fee ??
    I have a spreadsheet that I use to check/monitor my account, and it was obvious that my spreadsheet info and the statement didn't match.
    Do I need to utilise a formula to ascertain the monthly fee, as opposed to just using an £8.00 input.
    The formula would be......(8.00 x 12) ÷ 365 then multiplied by number of days per month/period. However by using this formula the fee for this statement would not be the £8.11 shown on my statement.

    Any ideas anyone
    1
  • hi Gray4276
    good luck with this one, I gave up trying to work out how to get my extremely comprehensive spreadsheet to match, I've learnt to live with an approximate 10p discrepancy. I think it's monthly and based on 30.417 days in a month, then the daily single days are adjusted up or down as necessary, but I think (untested due to price changes) it does work out over a year.
    I've posted about this a few times. Sadly I'm not clever enough to emulate the system PP use, but if you come up with a formula that works let us know (hint, I've wasted hours on this and don't forget to add the 5%vat)
    If the rate changes the individual days are calculated or subtracted - I think.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray4276 View Post
    Hi to all,
    I've just checked my latest statement which arrived today. Can someone explain how the membership fee is "actually" applied to the bill. I understand that it's £8.00 per fuel, however on my statement it shows it as £8.11 [this is the same amount as when the fee was £8.50 per fuel].
    Is it possible that the software has just simply not applied the correct /new membership fee ??
    I have a spreadsheet that I use to check/monitor my account, and it was obvious that my spreadsheet info and the statement didn't match.
    Do I need to utilise a formula to ascertain the monthly fee, as opposed to just using an £8.00 input.
    The formula would be......(8.00 x 12) ÷ 365 then multiplied by number of days per month/period. However by using this formula the fee for this statement would not be the £8.11 shown on my statement.

    Any ideas anyone


  • Hi Woz,
    Thanks for the reply......I'm really happy with my spreadsheet, and it's very accurate to be honest.....even in Feb when the membership fee changed on the 15th....halfway through my statement period. However this latest statement shows a higher amount for the membership fee than I had expected. I have used Wotbot and messaged the team for an explanation. Once it has been explained to me, I will make any adjustment (if necessary) to my spreadsheet. I'm quite OCD and "need" my spreadsheet to be a true reflection of the billing process.
    Can everyone check their next statement to see how the membership fee appears on thetheir bill.

    ​Cheers

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hi Strutt G,

    I have read those previous posts....and that is not my point at all. I understand the details regarding the membership fee including the reduction in Feb. My spreadsheet calculations for Feb were "spot on" so I would have expected my calculations for March to be equally accurate. I'm also fully aware that our billing period is dependant on our individual joining date. My point was that the membership fee charged was £8.11 and not the £8.00 that I was expecting.....However if the monthly membership fee is calculated by £8.00 x 12 for the annual charge and then divided by 365 (for a daily charge) and multiplied by the number of days for the relevant month/period.....then it would not work out to be £8.11 for my March bill.
    ​Thanks for your assiassistance tho' really appappreciated.
    Gray4276
    1
  • Hi Woz,
    Thanks for the reply......I'm really happy with my spreadsheet, and it's very accurate to be honest.....even in Feb when the membership fee changed on the 15th....halfway through my statement period. However this latest statement shows a higher amount for the membership fee than I had expected. I have used Wotbot and messaged the team for an explanation. Once it has been explained to me, I will make any adjustment (if necessary) to my spreadsheet. I'm quite OCD and "need" my spreadsheet to be a true reflection of the billing process.
    Can everyone check their next statement to see how the membership fee appears on thetheir bill.

    ​Cheers

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hi Strutt G,

    I have read those previous posts....and that is not my point at all. I understand the details regarding the membership fee including the reduction in Feb. My spreadsheet calculations for Feb were "spot on" so I would have expected my calculations for March to be equally accurate. I'm also fully aware that our billing period is dependant on our individual joining date. My point was that the membership fee charged was £8.11 and not the £8.00 that I was expecting.....However if the monthly membership fee is calculated by £8.00 x 12 for the annual charge and then divided by 365 (for a daily charge) and multiplied by the number of days for the relevant month/period.....then it would not work out to be £8.11 for my March bill.
    ​Thanks for your assiassistance tho' really appappreciated.
    Gray4276


  • Hi Gray4276, Oh sorry yes I really did miss the point...I keep accurate spreads and must look at the calcs again when I get a mo. Cheers!
    1
  • Hi Gray4276, Oh sorry yes I really did miss the point...I keep accurate spreads and must look at the calcs again when I get a mo. Cheers!


  • Quote Originally Posted by Gray4276 View Post
    Hi to all,
    I've just checked my latest statement which arrived today. Can someone explain how the membership fee is "actually" applied to the bill. I understand that it's £8.00 per fuel, however on my statement it shows it as £8.11 [this is the same amount as when the fee was £8.50 per fuel].
    Is it possible that the software has just simply not applied the correct /new membership fee ??
    I have a spreadsheet that I use to check/monitor my account, and it was obvious that my spreadsheet info and the statement didn't match.
    Do I need to utilise a f NJormula to ascertain the monthly fee, as opposed to just using an £8.00 input.
    The formula would be......(8.00 x 12) ÷ 365 then multiplied by number of days per month/period. However by using this formula the fee for this statement would not be the £8.11 shown on my statement.

    Any ideas anyone
    Hi there

    Certainly looks like an error - my bill last week showed membership fee of £7.62, which 5% vat turns into £8.001
    1
  • Quote Originally Posted by Gray4276 View Post
    Hi to all,
    I've just checked my latest statement which arrived today. Can someone explain how the membership fee is "actually" applied to the bill. I understand that it's £8.00 per fuel, however on my statement it shows it as £8.11 [this is the same amount as when the fee was £8.50 per fuel].
    Is it possible that the software has just simply not applied the correct /new membership fee ??
    I have a spreadsheet that I use to check/monitor my account, and it was obvious that my spreadsheet info and the statement didn't match.
    Do I need to utilise a f NJormula to ascertain the monthly fee, as opposed to just using an £8.00 input.
    The formula would be......(8.00 x 12) ÷ 365 then multiplied by number of days per month/period. However by using this formula the fee for this statement would not be the £8.11 shown on my statement.

    Any ideas anyone
    Hi there

    Certainly looks like an error - my bill last week showed membership fee of £7.62, which 5% vat turns into £8.001


  • Same same
    1
  • Same same


  • Like Gray4276, my membership fee seems to be wrong. My statement covers 28 February to 30 March and membership fee for both fuels is stated as £8.36 ( plus vat = £8.77) less dual fuel discount of £1.21.
    Something obviously not right, I have messaged the team to see if I can get an explanation.
    2
  • Like Gray4276, my membership fee seems to be wrong. My statement covers 28 February to 30 March and membership fee for both fuels is stated as £8.36 ( plus vat = £8.77) less dual fuel discount of £1.21.
    Something obviously not right, I have messaged the team to see if I can get an explanation.


  • Quote Originally Posted by Duppy View Post
    Like Gray4276, my membership fee seems to be wrong. My statement covers 28 February to 30 March and membership fee for both fuels is stated as £8.36 ( plus vat = £8.77) less dual fuel discount of £1.21.
    Something obviously not right, I have messaged the team to see if I can get an explanation.
    Hi Duppy....glad I'm not the only one !!! I've also been in contact with the team via Wotbot. I received an email from PP stating that I had a response...but when I logged in to see....no reply was showing.

    Come on PP need to be doing better... please.
    Gray4276
    1
  • Quote Originally Posted by Duppy View Post
    Like Gray4276, my membership fee seems to be wrong. My statement covers 28 February to 30 March and membership fee for both fuels is stated as £8.36 ( plus vat = £8.77) less dual fuel discount of £1.21.
    Something obviously not right, I have messaged the team to see if I can get an explanation.
    Hi Duppy....glad I'm not the only one !!! I've also been in contact with the team via Wotbot. I received an email from PP stating that I had a response...but when I logged in to see....no reply was showing.

    Come on PP need to be doing better... please.
    Gray4276


  • Quote Originally Posted by Gray4276 View Post
    I received an email from PP stating that I had a response...but when I logged in to see....no reply was showing.
    Hey @Gray4276
    I'm checking this out. Was it an email or a text message from us?
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

    ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​
    1
  • Quote Originally Posted by Gray4276 View Post
    I received an email from PP stating that I had a response...but when I logged in to see....no reply was showing.
    Hey @Gray4276
    I'm checking this out. Was it an email or a text message from us?
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

    ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​


  • Quote Originally Posted by Gray4276 View Post
    Hi Marc, it was a text msg and contained a link to a response in Wotbot. I opened the link and Wotbot was blank and was expecting a question input from me.
    I then logged into my app and opened the help tab, and opened Wotbot and there was a response from Rosie
    Sorry to hastle you......but I'm just trtrying to help PP sort out these little glitches in your systems to help PP to become even better at what you are already good at. Onwards and upwards
    No hassle at all!
    The issue was caused because you weren't logged into the app. That's why the link from the text message to WattBot was blank.
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

    ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​
    0
  • Quote Originally Posted by Gray4276 View Post
    Hi Marc, it was a text msg and contained a link to a response in Wotbot. I opened the link and Wotbot was blank and was expecting a question input from me.
    I then logged into my app and opened the help tab, and opened Wotbot and there was a response from Rosie
    Sorry to hastle you......but I'm just trtrying to help PP sort out these little glitches in your systems to help PP to become even better at what you are already good at. Onwards and upwards
    No hassle at all!
    The issue was caused because you weren't logged into the app. That's why the link from the text message to WattBot was blank.
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

    ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​


  • Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    No hassle at all!
    The issue was caused because you weren't logged into the app. That's why the link from the text message to WattBot was blank.
    Hi Marc, I'll bear that in mind for future reference.

    How's it going with my other issues.....??
    Gray4276
    0
  • Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    No hassle at all!
    The issue was caused because you weren't logged into the app. That's why the link from the text message to WattBot was blank.
    Hi Marc, I'll bear that in mind for future reference.

    How's it going with my other issues.....??
    Gray4276


  • I have received a reply on Wattbot about the incorrect membership fee, apparently there is a glitch which is causing 3 extra days to be added, the billing team is working on it to find out what has happened and any extra charge refunded or credited.
    1
  • I have received a reply on Wattbot about the incorrect membership fee, apparently there is a glitch which is causing 3 extra days to be added, the billing team is working on it to find out what has happened and any extra charge refunded or credited.


  • Quote Originally Posted by Duppy View Post
    I have received a reply on Wattbot about the incorrect membership fee, apparently there is a glitch which is causing 3 extra days to be added, the billing team is working on it to find out what has happened and any extra charge refunded or credited.
    Hi Duppy,
    Hopefully I'll maybe get a reply from the team too soon.....quite a few glitches rearing their ugly little heads at the moment.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Quote Originally Posted by Duppy View Post
    I have received a reply on Wattbot about the incorrect membership fee, apparently there is a glitch which is causing 3 extra days to be added, the billing team is working on it to find out what has happened and any extra charge refunded or credited.
    Hi Duppy,
    Following on from my earlier reply.....so it charged for 33 days instead of 30 days.....that's really weird !!!!
    Gray4276
    0
  • Quote Originally Posted by Duppy View Post
    I have received a reply on Wattbot about the incorrect membership fee, apparently there is a glitch which is causing 3 extra days to be added, the billing team is working on it to find out what has happened and any extra charge refunded or credited.
    Hi Duppy,
    Hopefully I'll maybe get a reply from the team too soon.....quite a few glitches rearing their ugly little heads at the moment.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Quote Originally Posted by Duppy View Post
    I have received a reply on Wattbot about the incorrect membership fee, apparently there is a glitch which is causing 3 extra days to be added, the billing team is working on it to find out what has happened and any extra charge refunded or credited.
    Hi Duppy,
    Following on from my earlier reply.....so it charged for 33 days instead of 30 days.....that's really weird !!!!
    Gray4276


  • hi Gray and @Marc
    ​I'm not sure if I'm OCD but I like my spreadsheet to be correct as do you. (I'm pedantic and mild OCD or to some I'm just an irritating ******)

    You may wish to also consider the following:
    You spreadsheet cannot accurately predict the conversion between volume and kWh for gas without knowing the calorific value. I've used an average CV on my spreadsheet and I back convert when I get the statement and work out what CV was used. On that basis your spreadsheet will never 100% accurately predict your gas costs unless the CV happens to be the same as the average you use.
    The electricity costs work out to the penny- no problems with that.
    The dual supply discount , hmm not sure now that I think about it....
    I've already explained how I think the membership fee is calculated in my previous post, the issue as far as I can see is that it isn't actually charged monthly because that would lead to an anomaly in the daily rate since each month is a different number of days.
    That would obviously lead to a discrepancy in the rate, so for example
    Feb would be 27.211p + vat per day (not in a leap year) but January would be 24.5776p + vat, this is clearly not acceptable, so to get round this each month is assumed to be 365/12 days = 30.417 days (or maybe 365.25/12=30.4375? who knows?) A day is then approx either 25.049p+ vat (or 25.031p+ vat)
    Then if the month is 30 days I assume approx 0.4 of a day is subtracted, or if 31 days 0.6 added etc.
    This method then allows a split charge as single days can be used for adjustment in the case of price changes,or a customer leaving etc.
    In reality it would make very little difference if the single days were calculated at the rate of £96 divided by 365 or 365.25 per day for adjustment.

    Simply put this is caused because the membership fee is quoted monthly, but applied daily.

    Please share any replies you get, I may be talking complete b*ll* bu.t when I looked it was the only explanation that fitted the figures and I'm not clever enough or prepared to spend any more time on my spreadsheet which consistently predicts my bill to within 10p (and I could probably get it to within a couple of pence with an "if " statement (If days=28 or 30 or 31 subtract amount xyz etc) because the error is consistent and it's near enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray4276 View Post
    Hi Woz,
    Thanks for the reply......I'm really happy with my spreadsheet, and it's very accurate to be honest.....even in Feb when the membership fee changed on the 15th....halfway through my statement period. However this latest statement shows a higher amount for the membership fee than I had expected. I have used Wotbot and messaged the team for an explanation. Once it has been explained to me, I will make any adjustment (if necessary) to my spreadsheet. I'm quite OCD and "need" my spreadsheet to be a true reflection of the billing process.
    Can everyone check their next statement to see how the membership fee appears on thetheir bill.

    ​Cheers

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hi Strutt G,

    I have read those previous posts....and that is not my point at all. I understand the details regarding the membership fee including the reduction in Feb. My spreadsheet calculations for Feb were "spot on" so I would have expected my calculations for March to be equally accurate. I'm also fully aware that our billing period is dependant on our individual joining date. My point was that the membership fee charged was £8.11 and not the £8.00 that I was expecting.....However if the monthly membership fee is calculated by £8.00 x 12 for the annual charge and then divided by 365 (for a daily charge) and multiplied by the number of days for the relevant month/period.....then it would not work out to be £8.11 for my March bill.
    ​Thanks for your assiassistance tho' really appappreciated.
    Last edited by woz; 01-04-19 at 22:04. Reason: When it's no longer possible to discriminate hit everything or keep quiet....
    1
  • hi Gray and @Marc
    ​I'm not sure if I'm OCD but I like my spreadsheet to be correct as do you. (I'm pedantic and mild OCD or to some I'm just an irritating ******)

    You may wish to also consider the following:
    You spreadsheet cannot accurately predict the conversion between volume and kWh for gas without knowing the calorific value. I've used an average CV on my spreadsheet and I back convert when I get the statement and work out what CV was used. On that basis your spreadsheet will never 100% accurately predict your gas costs unless the CV happens to be the same as the average you use.
    The electricity costs work out to the penny- no problems with that.
    The dual supply discount , hmm not sure now that I think about it....
    I've already explained how I think the membership fee is calculated in my previous post, the issue as far as I can see is that it isn't actually charged monthly because that would lead to an anomaly in the daily rate since each month is a different number of days.
    That would obviously lead to a discrepancy in the rate, so for example
    Feb would be 27.211p + vat per day (not in a leap year) but January would be 24.5776p + vat, this is clearly not acceptable, so to get round this each month is assumed to be 365/12 days = 30.417 days (or maybe 365.25/12=30.4375? who knows?) A day is then approx either 25.049p+ vat (or 25.031p+ vat)
    Then if the month is 30 days I assume approx 0.4 of a day is subtracted, or if 31 days 0.6 added etc.
    This method then allows a split charge as single days can be used for adjustment in the case of price changes,or a customer leaving etc.
    In reality it would make very little difference if the single days were calculated at the rate of £96 divided by 365 or 365.25 per day for adjustment.

    Simply put this is caused because the membership fee is quoted monthly, but applied daily.

    Please share any replies you get, I may be talking complete b*ll* bu.t when I looked it was the only explanation that fitted the figures and I'm not clever enough or prepared to spend any more time on my spreadsheet which consistently predicts my bill to within 10p (and I could probably get it to within a couple of pence with an "if " statement (If days=28 or 30 or 31 subtract amount xyz etc) because the error is consistent and it's near enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray4276 View Post
    Hi Woz,
    Thanks for the reply......I'm really happy with my spreadsheet, and it's very accurate to be honest.....even in Feb when the membership fee changed on the 15th....halfway through my statement period. However this latest statement shows a higher amount for the membership fee than I had expected. I have used Wotbot and messaged the team for an explanation. Once it has been explained to me, I will make any adjustment (if necessary) to my spreadsheet. I'm quite OCD and "need" my spreadsheet to be a true reflection of the billing process.
    Can everyone check their next statement to see how the membership fee appears on thetheir bill.

    ​Cheers

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hi Strutt G,

    I have read those previous posts....and that is not my point at all. I understand the details regarding the membership fee including the reduction in Feb. My spreadsheet calculations for Feb were "spot on" so I would have expected my calculations for March to be equally accurate. I'm also fully aware that our billing period is dependant on our individual joining date. My point was that the membership fee charged was £8.11 and not the £8.00 that I was expecting.....However if the monthly membership fee is calculated by £8.00 x 12 for the annual charge and then divided by 365 (for a daily charge) and multiplied by the number of days for the relevant month/period.....then it would not work out to be £8.11 for my March bill.
    ​Thanks for your assiassistance tho' really appappreciated.


  • Quote Originally Posted by woz;
    I've already explained how I think the membership fee is calculated in my previous post, the issue as far as I can see is that it isn't actually charged [U
    monthly[/U] because that would lead to an anomaly in the daily rate since each month is a different number of days.
    That would obviously lead to a discrepancy in the rate, so for example
    Feb would be 27.211p + vat per day (not in a leap year) but January would be 24.5776p + vat, this is clearly not acceptable, so to get round this each month is assumed to be 365/12 days = 30.417 days (or maybe 365.25/12=30.4375? who knows?) A day is then approx either 25.049p+ vat (or 25.031p+ vat)
    Then if the month is 30 days I assume approx 0.4 of a day is subtracted, or if 31 days 0.6 added etc.
    This method then allows a split charge as single days can be used for adjustment in the case of price changes,or a customer leaving etc.
    In reality it would make very little difference if the single days were calculated at the rate of £96 divided by 365 or 365.25 per day for adjustment.

    Simply put this is caused because the membership fee is quoted monthly, but applied daily.

    Hi Woz

    My welcome pack told me my membership fee was £8.50 a month (£102/year, accrued daily).

    So now it's £8 a month, presumably £96/year, but still accrued daily.

    I think this confirms what you are saying...
    Stephen
    1
  • Quote Originally Posted by woz;
    I've already explained how I think the membership fee is calculated in my previous post, the issue as far as I can see is that it isn't actually charged [U
    monthly[/U] because that would lead to an anomaly in the daily rate since each month is a different number of days.
    That would obviously lead to a discrepancy in the rate, so for example
    Feb would be 27.211p + vat per day (not in a leap year) but January would be 24.5776p + vat, this is clearly not acceptable, so to get round this each month is assumed to be 365/12 days = 30.417 days (or maybe 365.25/12=30.4375? who knows?) A day is then approx either 25.049p+ vat (or 25.031p+ vat)
    Then if the month is 30 days I assume approx 0.4 of a day is subtracted, or if 31 days 0.6 added etc.
    This method then allows a split charge as single days can be used for adjustment in the case of price changes,or a customer leaving etc.
    In reality it would make very little difference if the single days were calculated at the rate of £96 divided by 365 or 365.25 per day for adjustment.

    Simply put this is caused because the membership fee is quoted monthly, but applied daily.

    Hi Woz

    My welcome pack told me my membership fee was £8.50 a month (£102/year, accrued daily).

    So now it's £8 a month, presumably £96/year, but still accrued daily.

    I think this confirms what you are saying...
    Stephen


  • Thanks..
    I scratched my head for a long time over this, alopecia is the result...
    Quote Originally Posted by stephenrand View Post
    Hi Woz

    My welcome pack told me my membership fee was £8.50 a month (£102/year, accrued daily).

    So now it's £8 a month, presumably £96/year, but still accrued daily.

    I think this confirms what you are saying...
    Stephen
    0
  • Thanks..
    I scratched my head for a long time over this, alopecia is the result...
    Quote Originally Posted by stephenrand View Post
    Hi Woz

    My welcome pack told me my membership fee was £8.50 a month (£102/year, accrued daily).

    So now it's £8 a month, presumably £96/year, but still accrued daily.

    I think this confirms what you are saying...
    Stephen


  • I wonder if it depends where in the month your billing cycle falls.
    I also wonder if it was caused by applying the month length adjustment twice.
    The more transparent and better way to do this would be to quote an "average" monthly fee and just charge per day, but it's difficult to sell that one ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Duppy View Post
    I have received a reply on Wattbot about the incorrect membership fee, apparently there is a glitch which is causing 3 extra days to be added, the billing team is working on it to find out what has happened and any extra charge refunded or credited.
    0
  • I wonder if it depends where in the month your billing cycle falls.
    I also wonder if it was caused by applying the month length adjustment twice.
    The more transparent and better way to do this would be to quote an "average" monthly fee and just charge per day, but it's difficult to sell that one ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Duppy View Post
    I have received a reply on Wattbot about the incorrect membership fee, apparently there is a glitch which is causing 3 extra days to be added, the billing team is working on it to find out what has happened and any extra charge refunded or credited.