• Hydrogen

    Interesting to see they are considering mixing gas with hydrogen. An interesting concept!
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  • Interesting to see they are considering mixing gas with hydrogen. An interesting concept!
  • Ineresting, who are "they"
    Quote Originally Posted by Egg47 View Post
    Interesting to see they are considering mixing gas with hydrogen. An interesting concept!
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  • Ineresting, who are "they"
    Quote Originally Posted by Egg47 View Post
    Interesting to see they are considering mixing gas with hydrogen. An interesting concept!
  • Quote Originally Posted by woz View Post
    Ineresting, who are "they"
    No idea who 'they're are but some info on concept here https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcell...iew-key-issues
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  • Quote Originally Posted by woz View Post
    Ineresting, who are "they"
    No idea who 'they're are but some info on concept here https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcell...iew-key-issues
  • Hi Egg47
    More info so we can get our heads around this. 👍
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  • Hi Egg47
    More info so we can get our heads around this. 👍
  • Is this the concept that injecting hydrogen to the fuel mix on petrol engines makes them more efficent?
    Yes it does and by quite a margin if done correctly. Only flaw to the plan is no retailers sell hydrogen and no car manufacturers are planning on developing the tech as in 15yrs time said petrol engines will be banned in most 1st world countries.
    Now the hydrogen concept i do like is in periods of low demand use excess wind energy to produce (by electrolysis) hydrogen, which is then used to power hydrogen fuel cells and in peak periods those fuel cells are used as a form of generation.
    Last edited by Jon1; 09-12-18 at 16:01.
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  • Is this the concept that injecting hydrogen to the fuel mix on petrol engines makes them more efficent?
    Yes it does and by quite a margin if done correctly. Only flaw to the plan is no retailers sell hydrogen and no car manufacturers are planning on developing the tech as in 15yrs time said petrol engines will be banned in most 1st world countries.
    Now the hydrogen concept i do like is in periods of low demand use excess wind energy to produce (by electrolysis) hydrogen, which is then used to power hydrogen fuel cells and in peak periods those fuel cells are used as a form of generation.
  • And HERE
    Quote Originally Posted by JennyR68 View Post
    No idea who 'they're are but some info on concept here https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcell...iew-key-issues
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  • And HERE
    Quote Originally Posted by JennyR68 View Post
    No idea who 'they're are but some info on concept here https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcell...iew-key-issues
  • Availability of hydrogen for fuel celled vehicles

    A novel way of having your cake and eating it is to dispose of plastic and tyre waste and turn them into hydrogen at the roadside. Interesting - Powerhouseenergy.net might have the solution?
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  • A novel way of having your cake and eating it is to dispose of plastic and tyre waste and turn them into hydrogen at the roadside. Interesting - Powerhouseenergy.net might have the solution?
  • Thanks for the information. I see a British company is in the market to produce hydrogen from waste plastic and old tyres. Have a look at powerhouseenergy.net.
    Is it possible to clean up the planet??
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  • Thanks for the information. I see a British company is in the market to produce hydrogen from waste plastic and old tyres. Have a look at powerhouseenergy.net.
    Is it possible to clean up the planet??
  • Quote Originally Posted by Egg47 View Post
    Thanks for the information. I see a British company is in the market to produce hydrogen from waste plastic and old tyres. Have a look at powerhouseenergy.net.
    Is it possible to clean up the planet??
    Thanks for link, that is exciting use of waste!
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  • Quote Originally Posted by Egg47 View Post
    Thanks for the information. I see a British company is in the market to produce hydrogen from waste plastic and old tyres. Have a look at powerhouseenergy.net.
    Is it possible to clean up the planet??
    Thanks for link, that is exciting use of waste!
  • Interesting thread @Egg47
    I've moved it to our All About Renewables section, and pinned it to the top, too
    What's sparked your interest in hydrogen?
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

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  • Interesting thread @Egg47
    I've moved it to our All About Renewables section, and pinned it to the top, too
    What's sparked your interest in hydrogen?
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

  • Hello there is a lot out there on the Internet on tt use of fossil fuels to power transport of the future. Electric cars are here with hydrogen powered vehicles now in production - see Toyota.

    Have a look at Powerhouse Energy plc to see that there is the start of plans to install facilities to fuel these vehicles in the future - next couple of years.
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  • Hello there is a lot out there on the Internet on tt use of fossil fuels to power transport of the future. Electric cars are here with hydrogen powered vehicles now in production - see Toyota.

    Have a look at Powerhouse Energy plc to see that there is the start of plans to install facilities to fuel these vehicles in the future - next couple of years.
  • I’m just not sold on hydrogen fuel cells as a sensible technology for small transport - cars & light vans, compared to battery EV technology.

    All I have researched suggests it takes many time more electricity to generate and compress the hydrogen compared to using that same electricity directly into batteries. Then there are the technical challenges of storing the fuel both at fueling stations and in the vehicles, so for me I don’t see the benefit.

    In terms of using excess renewables to generate hydrogen and then use it for generation later also seems to give very poor efficiencies, even if the heat generated is also used usefully (down at the low to mid 30% levels) which seems hugely wasteful when it might otherwise be stored in other forms more usefully.

    The excess renewables part is also inter sting as the figures I saw recently for 2017 suggest less than 4% of wind generation was actually surplus, which also suggest there might not be as much available as might be expected before looking more deeply into the figures.
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  • I’m just not sold on hydrogen fuel cells as a sensible technology for small transport - cars & light vans, compared to battery EV technology.

    All I have researched suggests it takes many time more electricity to generate and compress the hydrogen compared to using that same electricity directly into batteries. Then there are the technical challenges of storing the fuel both at fueling stations and in the vehicles, so for me I don’t see the benefit.

    In terms of using excess renewables to generate hydrogen and then use it for generation later also seems to give very poor efficiencies, even if the heat generated is also used usefully (down at the low to mid 30% levels) which seems hugely wasteful when it might otherwise be stored in other forms more usefully.

    The excess renewables part is also inter sting as the figures I saw recently for 2017 suggest less than 4% of wind generation was actually surplus, which also suggest there might not be as much available as might be expected before looking more deeply into the figures.
  • Don't you think that the market has already made its choice for cars @Egg47 and, for now, electricity wins?
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

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  • Don't you think that the market has already made its choice for cars @Egg47 and, for now, electricity wins?
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

  • I'm not sure about that. The installation of charging points has a long way to go especially on street charging. Hydrogen fuel celled vehicles are being produced now and with the ability to store hydrogen in and around the larger forecourts coming soon well in my opinion I would but my money on hydrogen vehicles.
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  • I'm not sure about that. The installation of charging points has a long way to go especially on street charging. Hydrogen fuel celled vehicles are being produced now and with the ability to store hydrogen in and around the larger forecourts coming soon well in my opinion I would but my money on hydrogen vehicles.
  • I agree that on-street charging is going to be an issue although there are pilots that have chargers integrated into lamppost in some areas of the country. And there are a few thousand additional rapid chargers already confirmed for installation in 2019.

    I just don’t see how the costs for a country-wide network of hydrogen fueling stations makes sense at this stage - there are virtually no vehicles available, and no infrastructure for the ongoing servicing/maintenance of these vehicles at present. It feels like hydrogen is at least 10 years or more behind BEVs, and with the new generation of rapids just starting to be deployed along with several cars with 200-300 real world range, at prices significantly below hydrogen cars, then I don’t see how hydrogen can catch up. With battery prices dropping to $100/kWh by 2020 (and predicted to be $50/kWh by 2025 then I think BEVs are going to be the dominant EV going forward.
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  • I agree that on-street charging is going to be an issue although there are pilots that have chargers integrated into lamppost in some areas of the country. And there are a few thousand additional rapid chargers already confirmed for installation in 2019.

    I just don’t see how the costs for a country-wide network of hydrogen fueling stations makes sense at this stage - there are virtually no vehicles available, and no infrastructure for the ongoing servicing/maintenance of these vehicles at present. It feels like hydrogen is at least 10 years or more behind BEVs, and with the new generation of rapids just starting to be deployed along with several cars with 200-300 real world range, at prices significantly below hydrogen cars, then I don’t see how hydrogen can catch up. With battery prices dropping to $100/kWh by 2020 (and predicted to be $50/kWh by 2025 then I think BEVs are going to be the dominant EV going forward.
  • Yeah I think BEVs are gonna dominate too 😂😂😂😂👍jk
    Peace is always beautiful.

    WALT WHITMAN
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  • Yeah I think BEVs are gonna dominate too 😂😂😂😂👍jk
    Peace is always beautiful.

    WALT WHITMAN
  • If you check out the Japanese car manufacturers you will see they are starting manufacturing powered cars with fuel cell technology. Access to hydrogen-see powerhouse energy for their DMG facilities where they dispose of plastic and end of life tyres and produce hydrogen. Sites well they only need a third of an acrea to produce it. It's a start
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  • If you check out the Japanese car manufacturers you will see they are starting manufacturing powered cars with fuel cell technology. Access to hydrogen-see powerhouse energy for their DMG facilities where they dispose of plastic and end of life tyres and produce hydrogen. Sites well they only need a third of an acrea to produce it. It's a start
  • Quote Originally Posted by Jon1 View Post
    Is this the concept that injecting hydrogen to the fuel mix on petrol engines makes them more efficent?
    Yes it does and by quite a margin if done correctly. Only flaw to the plan is no retailers sell hydrogen and no car manufacturers are planning on developing the tech as in 15yrs time said petrol engines will be banned in most 1st world countries.
    Now the hydrogen concept i do like is in periods of low demand use excess wind energy to produce (by electrolysis) hydrogen, which is then used to power hydrogen fuel cells and in peak periods those fuel cells are used as a form of generation.
    Using hydrogen is a horrendously inefficient use of power on the grid, much more efficient to move it into a lithium-ion cell aka electric car.

    Think if I remember correctly EV equates to about 70% energy conservation with hydrogen coming in at around 30%, not to mention the cooling and logistical outlays garages need to make to implement hydrogen pumps!
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  • Quote Originally Posted by Jon1 View Post
    Is this the concept that injecting hydrogen to the fuel mix on petrol engines makes them more efficent?
    Yes it does and by quite a margin if done correctly. Only flaw to the plan is no retailers sell hydrogen and no car manufacturers are planning on developing the tech as in 15yrs time said petrol engines will be banned in most 1st world countries.
    Now the hydrogen concept i do like is in periods of low demand use excess wind energy to produce (by electrolysis) hydrogen, which is then used to power hydrogen fuel cells and in peak periods those fuel cells are used as a form of generation.
    Using hydrogen is a horrendously inefficient use of power on the grid, much more efficient to move it into a lithium-ion cell aka electric car.

    Think if I remember correctly EV equates to about 70% energy conservation with hydrogen coming in at around 30%, not to mention the cooling and logistical outlays garages need to make to implement hydrogen pumps!
  • Ahead

    No it's not a mixture it's pure hydrogen and I think you will find its rolled out first at truck stops where commercial vehicles will be the first users.

    Have a look at Japanese manufacturers like Yoyota for their development in the field.

    I guess it's like the very first petrol vehicle they started with a red flag!'

    - - - Updated - - -
    Last edited by Egg47; 14-01-19 at 04:22. Reason: Spelling mistakes
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  • No it's not a mixture it's pure hydrogen and I think you will find its rolled out first at truck stops where commercial vehicles will be the first users.

    Have a look at Japanese manufacturers like Yoyota for their development in the field.

    I guess it's like the very first petrol vehicle they started with a red flag!'

    - - - Updated - - -
  • Very interesting show on Radio 4 this afternoon about ammonia. Costing the Earth series (on iplayer)
    As a problem pollutant and the measures being put in place to reduce levels on live stock farms.
    Also a new very efficient way to make ammonia that is several times more efficient than the current Haber process which is very energy intensive.
    So what?
    Well suggestion is that Australia where this new tech is being developed has more than enough sunlight to power a huge amount of the planet but no way to get the electricity to the rest of the world.
    Idea is to use huge solar farms to generate electricity, make ammonia, ship round world, simple process to crack into nitrogen and HYDROGEN.
    Pop it into fuel cells and off you go for power or transport. Worth a listen
    2
  • Very interesting show on Radio 4 this afternoon about ammonia. Costing the Earth series (on iplayer)
    As a problem pollutant and the measures being put in place to reduce levels on live stock farms.
    Also a new very efficient way to make ammonia that is several times more efficient than the current Haber process which is very energy intensive.
    So what?
    Well suggestion is that Australia where this new tech is being developed has more than enough sunlight to power a huge amount of the planet but no way to get the electricity to the rest of the world.
    Idea is to use huge solar farms to generate electricity, make ammonia, ship round world, simple process to crack into nitrogen and HYDROGEN.
    Pop it into fuel cells and off you go for power or transport. Worth a listen