• EV Home Charger - Zappi

    I am about to change my home charger over from a basic EO charger that was installed 2 years ago with a new Zappi, so that it can work better with my solar panels.

    Seems to be feature packed but struggling to get my head around the different charging modes (Eco and Eco+)

    Anyone got one ?

    I will also update this thread with my findings as and when I start using it.
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  • I am about to change my home charger over from a basic EO charger that was installed 2 years ago with a new Zappi, so that it can work better with my solar panels.

    Seems to be feature packed but struggling to get my head around the different charging modes (Eco and Eco+)

    Anyone got one ?

    I will also update this thread with my findings as and when I start using it.
  • Hi @VijayB
    This looks really cool.
    Apart from the wind/solar power, does it do anything else that standard home chargers don't?
    The Zappi looks a bit pricier than some of the others on the market.
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

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  • Hi @VijayB
    This looks really cool.
    Apart from the wind/solar power, does it do anything else that standard home chargers don't?
    The Zappi looks a bit pricier than some of the others on the market.
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

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  • Hi Vijay, have a look @ page 11 of the manual, had my Zappi installed a few days ago not really the sunshine to fully check out the ECO+ mode. Regards, Chris
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  • Hi Vijay, have a look @ page 11 of the manual, had my Zappi installed a few days ago not really the sunshine to fully check out the ECO+ mode. Regards, Chris
  • Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Hi @VijayB
    Apart from the wind/solar power, does it do anything else that standard home chargers don't?
    The Zappi looks a bit pricier than some of the others on the market.
    Had a week and a bit to get used to it now and it is doing its job well. I would say that the information on the little screen is very useful, my old EO just had a flashing light, the Zappi, with a standard install, will show you how much in total the house is pulling from the grid (or exporting to the grid) and how much of that is going into the car, it will also show you how much has gone into the car too.

    There are 3 settings:

    Fast - Charge at 7kWh,

    Eco which will charge the car at a minimum of 1.4kWh (from solar and grid) and will then increase if the power generated by solar is greater than the household requirement, so if household is taking 0.5kWh, Solar is generating 3kWh, it will charge the car at 2.5kWh.

    Eco+ I have not really looked at as, like @cp3265 says, this time of year is not the best to exploit it, so I felt it pointless reading up on it just yet.

    As a 2 EV household it works really well. The first EV is home at 12:45, so starts charging via Eco, 2nd EV gets in at 5pm, quick cable swap and charges at Fast.

    You can also use the screen to see some form of history, charges per day etc. All this should be available in an app, there is talk of one, but nothing has appeared yet.
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  • Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Hi @VijayB
    Apart from the wind/solar power, does it do anything else that standard home chargers don't?
    The Zappi looks a bit pricier than some of the others on the market.
    Had a week and a bit to get used to it now and it is doing its job well. I would say that the information on the little screen is very useful, my old EO just had a flashing light, the Zappi, with a standard install, will show you how much in total the house is pulling from the grid (or exporting to the grid) and how much of that is going into the car, it will also show you how much has gone into the car too.

    There are 3 settings:

    Fast - Charge at 7kWh,

    Eco which will charge the car at a minimum of 1.4kWh (from solar and grid) and will then increase if the power generated by solar is greater than the household requirement, so if household is taking 0.5kWh, Solar is generating 3kWh, it will charge the car at 2.5kWh.

    Eco+ I have not really looked at as, like @cp3265 says, this time of year is not the best to exploit it, so I felt it pointless reading up on it just yet.

    As a 2 EV household it works really well. The first EV is home at 12:45, so starts charging via Eco, 2nd EV gets in at 5pm, quick cable swap and charges at Fast.

    You can also use the screen to see some form of history, charges per day etc. All this should be available in an app, there is talk of one, but nothing has appeared yet.
  • Hi @VijayB, how long does the 7.5kWh fast charge take as a matter of interest? Must make the lights dim a bit
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  • Hi @VijayB, how long does the 7.5kWh fast charge take as a matter of interest? Must make the lights dim a bit
  • @Gil Depends on how much I need to "fill" the car up.

    Typically, EV #1 which only does about 15 miles a day during the week and about the same over the weekend, we charge this to the max about once a month, the rest of the time we just charge on ECO, so any typical weekday it will use 4kWh of electricity (average around 4 miles per kWh), so an ECO charge between 1pm and 4pm will top the car up with 4.5kWh. Some days we charge, others we dont.

    EV #2 however is different, This one does around 75 miles a day, so uses approx 20kWh, so this ones gets plugged in at around 5pm on MAX, draws down 7kWh and usually is done by 9pm. so 4 hours, Maths will tell you that 7 x 4 = 28kWh and I only need 20 to top up. The reason it takes longer as the charge rate slows down once you get over 80% charge.

    If we were on Economy 7, or even a time of day tariff, then I can program the car to delay charging until the early hours etc.

    May seem a lot of electricity, but its a lot cheaper than petrol

    This pic shows a typical day in Nov
    Attached Images Attached Images  
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  • @Gil Depends on how much I need to "fill" the car up.

    Typically, EV #1 which only does about 15 miles a day during the week and about the same over the weekend, we charge this to the max about once a month, the rest of the time we just charge on ECO, so any typical weekday it will use 4kWh of electricity (average around 4 miles per kWh), so an ECO charge between 1pm and 4pm will top the car up with 4.5kWh. Some days we charge, others we dont.

    EV #2 however is different, This one does around 75 miles a day, so uses approx 20kWh, so this ones gets plugged in at around 5pm on MAX, draws down 7kWh and usually is done by 9pm. so 4 hours, Maths will tell you that 7 x 4 = 28kWh and I only need 20 to top up. The reason it takes longer as the charge rate slows down once you get over 80% charge.

    If we were on Economy 7, or even a time of day tariff, then I can program the car to delay charging until the early hours etc.

    May seem a lot of electricity, but its a lot cheaper than petrol

    This pic shows a typical day in Nov
    Attached Images Attached Images  
  • Wow @VijayB, you certainly are into the "numbers" and thanks for such an informative response.

    The reason for my candid question was I've seen other posts that talk about planning a long distance trip around stopping off at the next available charging point. So, I imagined a 2 hour drive, stop for "cup of tea" and then continuing for another 1-2 hours and so on to the next charging point. SO, if the motorway, or whatever, had this facility every couple of hours and was "fast charging", would it have recharged the vehicle whilst I had my cuppa in say 20-30 minutes?

    I guess a bit of a how long is a piece of string, but could serious motoring look and work like this in the future
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  • Wow @VijayB, you certainly are into the "numbers" and thanks for such an informative response.

    The reason for my candid question was I've seen other posts that talk about planning a long distance trip around stopping off at the next available charging point. So, I imagined a 2 hour drive, stop for "cup of tea" and then continuing for another 1-2 hours and so on to the next charging point. SO, if the motorway, or whatever, had this facility every couple of hours and was "fast charging", would it have recharged the vehicle whilst I had my cuppa in say 20-30 minutes?

    I guess a bit of a how long is a piece of string, but could serious motoring look and work like this in the future
  • @Gil Ah yes, the long distance issue. I would say you would get around 150 miles on a single charge before needing to re-charge, but given the state of the charging infrastructure on our motorways (provided by Ecotricity), you would be better off assuming 120 miles, then having a Plan B, C and D just in case Plan A fails. Not to mention the different types of RFID cards/Apps you need. nightmare.

    Having said that, there are more modern chargers popping up which can charge at 50kWh, these are usually off the motorway network, but not too far, places like a BP or Shell Garage, a Healthclub etc, so options to charge up while having a brew. Also, all new chargers now have to accept non-subscription, so you may still need an App, but some, like Instavolt, can use a std debit / credit card. Cost per kWh do vary though, so you need to keep an eye on that. There are websites like Zapman and Plugshare that can help plan journeys.

    I personally get around this issue by cheating. We never venturing further than a fully charged car can take us there and back
    We use our 5 year old diesel for longer journeys.
    The plan though is as soon as a 300-400 mile range car comes out, or the charging situation improves.
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  • @Gil Ah yes, the long distance issue. I would say you would get around 150 miles on a single charge before needing to re-charge, but given the state of the charging infrastructure on our motorways (provided by Ecotricity), you would be better off assuming 120 miles, then having a Plan B, C and D just in case Plan A fails. Not to mention the different types of RFID cards/Apps you need. nightmare.

    Having said that, there are more modern chargers popping up which can charge at 50kWh, these are usually off the motorway network, but not too far, places like a BP or Shell Garage, a Healthclub etc, so options to charge up while having a brew. Also, all new chargers now have to accept non-subscription, so you may still need an App, but some, like Instavolt, can use a std debit / credit card. Cost per kWh do vary though, so you need to keep an eye on that. There are websites like Zapman and Plugshare that can help plan journeys.

    I personally get around this issue by cheating. We never venturing further than a fully charged car can take us there and back
    We use our 5 year old diesel for longer journeys.
    The plan though is as soon as a 300-400 mile range car comes out, or the charging situation improves.
  • Thanks again @VijayB, it does worry me though, there is so much talk about stopping Diesel / Petrol cars that surely NOW is the time for some major investment in viable infrastructure to cope with an Electric revolution. Perhaps its just me thinking too much
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  • Thanks again @VijayB, it does worry me though, there is so much talk about stopping Diesel / Petrol cars that surely NOW is the time for some major investment in viable infrastructure to cope with an Electric revolution. Perhaps its just me thinking too much
  • I don't think there is much to worry about, A friend went from the lake district to cornwall with his EV Ioniq and as he had a Plan A, B, C and D, it sort of went smoothly. You will always find a working charger, and new rapids are coming online thing and fast.

    i agree though that the motorway network needs serious investment, or someone to buy out Ecotricity and revamp their infrastructure.

    The other alternative of course, if you have the cash, is to buy a Tesla, they have their own charging network and they have been installed across the UK and I think you are never a full charge away from the next one.
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  • I don't think there is much to worry about, A friend went from the lake district to cornwall with his EV Ioniq and as he had a Plan A, B, C and D, it sort of went smoothly. You will always find a working charger, and new rapids are coming online thing and fast.

    i agree though that the motorway network needs serious investment, or someone to buy out Ecotricity and revamp their infrastructure.

    The other alternative of course, if you have the cash, is to buy a Tesla, they have their own charging network and they have been installed across the UK and I think you are never a full charge away from the next one.
  • So much detail to think about, in my head anyway
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  • So much detail to think about, in my head anyway
  • Quote Originally Posted by VijayB View Post
    @Gil Depends on how much I need to "fill" the car up.

    Typically, EV #1 which only does about 15 miles a day during the week and about the same over the weekend, we charge this to the max about once a month, the rest of the time we just charge on ECO, so any typical weekday it will use 4kWh of electricity (average around 4 miles per kWh), so an ECO charge between 1pm and 4pm will top the car up with 4.5kWh. Some days we charge, others we dont.

    EV #2 however is different, This one does around 75 miles a day, so uses approx 20kWh, so this ones gets plugged in at around 5pm on MAX, draws down 7kWh and usually is done by 9pm. so 4 hours, Maths will tell you that 7 x 4 = 28kWh and I only need 20 to top up. The reason it takes longer as the charge rate slows down once you get over 80% charge.

    If we were on Economy 7, or even a time of day tariff, then I can program the car to delay charging until the early hours etc.

    May seem a lot of electricity, but its a lot cheaper than petrol

    This pic shows a typical day in Nov
    Your graph looks amazing @VijayB
    I don't have solar panels but I'm on the lookout for best ways to monitor energy usage, and EV usage.
    Got any tips on apps/tools you'd be happy to share here?
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

    ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​
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  • Quote Originally Posted by VijayB View Post
    @Gil Depends on how much I need to "fill" the car up.

    Typically, EV #1 which only does about 15 miles a day during the week and about the same over the weekend, we charge this to the max about once a month, the rest of the time we just charge on ECO, so any typical weekday it will use 4kWh of electricity (average around 4 miles per kWh), so an ECO charge between 1pm and 4pm will top the car up with 4.5kWh. Some days we charge, others we dont.

    EV #2 however is different, This one does around 75 miles a day, so uses approx 20kWh, so this ones gets plugged in at around 5pm on MAX, draws down 7kWh and usually is done by 9pm. so 4 hours, Maths will tell you that 7 x 4 = 28kWh and I only need 20 to top up. The reason it takes longer as the charge rate slows down once you get over 80% charge.

    If we were on Economy 7, or even a time of day tariff, then I can program the car to delay charging until the early hours etc.

    May seem a lot of electricity, but its a lot cheaper than petrol

    This pic shows a typical day in Nov
    Your graph looks amazing @VijayB
    I don't have solar panels but I'm on the lookout for best ways to monitor energy usage, and EV usage.
    Got any tips on apps/tools you'd be happy to share here?
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

    ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​
  • Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Your graph looks amazing @VijayB
    I don't have solar panels but I'm on the lookout for best ways to monitor energy usage, and EV usage.
    Got any tips on apps/tools you'd be happy to share here?
    Hi @Marc

    The graph is a direct cut and paste from the Solaredge portal which I got with my panels.
    Wouldn't a smart meter provide the info you need ? Never had one, so do not know if there is any ability to see a days/weeks/months usage graph or a way to export the data etc.
    I think there are other things you can do too, this (https://guide.openenergymonitor.org/) looks interesting as a side project.
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  • Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Your graph looks amazing @VijayB
    I don't have solar panels but I'm on the lookout for best ways to monitor energy usage, and EV usage.
    Got any tips on apps/tools you'd be happy to share here?
    Hi @Marc

    The graph is a direct cut and paste from the Solaredge portal which I got with my panels.
    Wouldn't a smart meter provide the info you need ? Never had one, so do not know if there is any ability to see a days/weeks/months usage graph or a way to export the data etc.
    I think there are other things you can do too, this (https://guide.openenergymonitor.org/) looks interesting as a side project.
  • I’m doing my best to get a Zappi installed as I run to electric vehicles - I have a Kia Soul EV (30kWh battery) and a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV.

    In my case the Zappi will be my second charger (I already have a “dumb” 7kW Rolec charger) as I need to charge both cars at the same time to ensure I maximise my EV mileage.

    I’ve chosen Zappi for a couple of reasons - I have solar PV so can potentially use Zappi to divert excess generation to one of the vehicles rather than the the power exported (although I generally use most of what I generate), but more importantly another function of the Zappi is load management. My home is all-electric and on a single phase 100A supply. The second charger would potentially push my usage well over 100A if bother chargers were operating at the same time as all my other loads, which would take out my supply fuse. However Zappi can monitor the total import current and dial back its output (or even stop completely) to ensure the maximum import stays below the threshold set. I need this to get DNO approval for my second charger, otherwise they would not authorise the installation with the company I’ve chosen to supply and fit the charger.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh and I forgot to add that I use a monitoring system called Ooen Energy Monitor to accurately monitor my main electrical meter supply and my solar PV generation. Its very comprehensive although a bit daunting for the less technical user to set up.
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  • I’m doing my best to get a Zappi installed as I run to electric vehicles - I have a Kia Soul EV (30kWh battery) and a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV.

    In my case the Zappi will be my second charger (I already have a “dumb” 7kW Rolec charger) as I need to charge both cars at the same time to ensure I maximise my EV mileage.

    I’ve chosen Zappi for a couple of reasons - I have solar PV so can potentially use Zappi to divert excess generation to one of the vehicles rather than the the power exported (although I generally use most of what I generate), but more importantly another function of the Zappi is load management. My home is all-electric and on a single phase 100A supply. The second charger would potentially push my usage well over 100A if bother chargers were operating at the same time as all my other loads, which would take out my supply fuse. However Zappi can monitor the total import current and dial back its output (or even stop completely) to ensure the maximum import stays below the threshold set. I need this to get DNO approval for my second charger, otherwise they would not authorise the installation with the company I’ve chosen to supply and fit the charger.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh and I forgot to add that I use a monitoring system called Ooen Energy Monitor to accurately monitor my main electrical meter supply and my solar PV generation. Its very comprehensive although a bit daunting for the less technical user to set up.
  • Hi @neilball
    This is great, really useful
    I'm about to take delivery of my first ever EV. Just had a home charger installed.
    Did you mean Open Energy Monitor? It's all looking a bit expensive to me.....
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

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  • Hi @neilball
    This is great, really useful
    I'm about to take delivery of my first ever EV. Just had a home charger installed.
    Did you mean Open Energy Monitor? It's all looking a bit expensive to me.....
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

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  • Yes, I bought the pre-built hardware (based on a Raspberry Pi) and the various sensors. In terms of accurrate monitoring (ie measuring both voltage and current) it seems good value to me, but then again I’ve previously had to use commercial hardware at work that would cost 10x this amount!

    In my case I have several consumer units in various locations, and ideally I would have liked to have monitored the circuits independently (then I could break down my consumption for my GSHP, lighting, general power, etc), but even with the costs of the hardware reducing then it would still be a big expenses so I’ve not yet taken the plunge! The multi-input hardware is from the same range as my original monitoring package but based on a purpose designed circuit board rather than a RPi.

    And well done on choosing an EV, what have you chosen?
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  • Yes, I bought the pre-built hardware (based on a Raspberry Pi) and the various sensors. In terms of accurrate monitoring (ie measuring both voltage and current) it seems good value to me, but then again I’ve previously had to use commercial hardware at work that would cost 10x this amount!

    In my case I have several consumer units in various locations, and ideally I would have liked to have monitored the circuits independently (then I could break down my consumption for my GSHP, lighting, general power, etc), but even with the costs of the hardware reducing then it would still be a big expenses so I’ve not yet taken the plunge! The multi-input hardware is from the same range as my original monitoring package but based on a purpose designed circuit board rather than a RPi.

    And well done on choosing an EV, what have you chosen?
  • Hi @neilball
    Oh, a Raspberry Pi
    I don't think my brain is technical enough. I might need to wait for a simple, idiot-proof app to come to my iPhone!

    I've gone for the 2018 Nissan Leaf. it's a lease and it was supposed to arrive last month (don't get me started on that!!) but latest delivery estimate is 'early Jan'.
    I had the chance to test drive a Leaf for a week in the summer, loved it. Can't afford to buy, but PP have a car lease scheme which works out OK for me.
    Got all my electrics sorted at home, the charger is installed. Just missing the car!
    What is your Kia Soul like?
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

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  • Hi @neilball
    Oh, a Raspberry Pi
    I don't think my brain is technical enough. I might need to wait for a simple, idiot-proof app to come to my iPhone!

    I've gone for the 2018 Nissan Leaf. it's a lease and it was supposed to arrive last month (don't get me started on that!!) but latest delivery estimate is 'early Jan'.
    I had the chance to test drive a Leaf for a week in the summer, loved it. Can't afford to buy, but PP have a car lease scheme which works out OK for me.
    Got all my electrics sorted at home, the charger is installed. Just missing the car!
    What is your Kia Soul like?
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

    ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​
  • @Marc

    I had a Gen2 24kWh Nissan Leaf Tekna for 2.5 years before switching to the Kia. It was a great introduction to EV driving but only having 20kWh usable capacity meant range was not brilliant, especially during the cold Scottish winters!

    The Soul is great, providing you can live with its appearance!! Nicely sped’ed, nice ride, and just about lively enough performance. The biggest “improvement” is having 30kWh usable capacity plus 7kW onboard charger - this has made a big difference to the utilisation of the car.

    I liked the spec of the new 40kWh Leaf, but it was introduced just a little to late to be a viable choice (my original Leaf was on a 2 year PCP deal from Nissan, and they extended for 6 months due to unavailability of the new model, but even then it would have been several more onths until the full range was available). I’m already looking forward to the much bigger choice (and performance improvements) that should be around by the time I’m ready to change next time.
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  • @Marc

    I had a Gen2 24kWh Nissan Leaf Tekna for 2.5 years before switching to the Kia. It was a great introduction to EV driving but only having 20kWh usable capacity meant range was not brilliant, especially during the cold Scottish winters!

    The Soul is great, providing you can live with its appearance!! Nicely sped’ed, nice ride, and just about lively enough performance. The biggest “improvement” is having 30kWh usable capacity plus 7kW onboard charger - this has made a big difference to the utilisation of the car.

    I liked the spec of the new 40kWh Leaf, but it was introduced just a little to late to be a viable choice (my original Leaf was on a 2 year PCP deal from Nissan, and they extended for 6 months due to unavailability of the new model, but even then it would have been several more onths until the full range was available). I’m already looking forward to the much bigger choice (and performance improvements) that should be around by the time I’m ready to change next time.
  • Quote Originally Posted by neilball View Post

    I had a Gen2 24kWh Nissan Leaf Tekna for 2.5 years before switching to the Kia. It was a great introduction to EV driving but only having 20kWh usable capacity meant range was not brilliant, especially during the cold Scottish winters!
    Hi @neilball
    You know I didn't really think about the impact of winters. How much impact do freezing temperatures have?
    I'm hoping not too much!
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

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  • Quote Originally Posted by neilball View Post

    I had a Gen2 24kWh Nissan Leaf Tekna for 2.5 years before switching to the Kia. It was a great introduction to EV driving but only having 20kWh usable capacity meant range was not brilliant, especially during the cold Scottish winters!
    Hi @neilball
    You know I didn't really think about the impact of winters. How much impact do freezing temperatures have?
    I'm hoping not too much!
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

    ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​
  • For the Soul EV I’ve been averaging 4.5 miles per kWh in Summer but in temperatures of 0 degrees I’ve currently dropped close to 3 miles/kWh (so with a usable 30 kWh that means around 90 miles max in winter and 135 miles in summer). I would always leave a decent buffer so for me that means 80-120 miles to be comfortable.

    I do live in scotland so it is much colder here than it is down on England, and I also make full use of heat and AC (I’m not one of the sadists who will runnwith no heating in the car to eek out the maximum mileage) - so that’s heated seats, heated steering wheel, and a cabin temp of 22 degrees in winter.

    In the Leaf I do remember having occasions where I got below 3 miles/kWh in winter, but not very often. It seems the Soul is a little more efficient compared to the Leaf I used to own.
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  • For the Soul EV I’ve been averaging 4.5 miles per kWh in Summer but in temperatures of 0 degrees I’ve currently dropped close to 3 miles/kWh (so with a usable 30 kWh that means around 90 miles max in winter and 135 miles in summer). I would always leave a decent buffer so for me that means 80-120 miles to be comfortable.

    I do live in scotland so it is much colder here than it is down on England, and I also make full use of heat and AC (I’m not one of the sadists who will runnwith no heating in the car to eek out the maximum mileage) - so that’s heated seats, heated steering wheel, and a cabin temp of 22 degrees in winter.

    In the Leaf I do remember having occasions where I got below 3 miles/kWh in winter, but not very often. It seems the Soul is a little more efficient compared to the Leaf I used to own.