• Power consumption, some calculations...and a song

    Most people don't realise the importance of getting their average standing power consumption down as low as possible. This is the power your property is using while you or your appliances aren't doing anything (much). It's pushed higher by leaving unnecessary items on standby or leaving stuff on that doesn't need to be on. What people forget is that this is energy that's used 24 hours a day 365 days a year. It might not seem that significant leaving a few items on standby but it soon mounts up
    Obviously there are things you can't control, the fridge and any security devices and routers* need to be powered all the time, but there are often items left on standby that don't need to be.
    To give you some idea of the cost, at current PP prices every 10 Watts of power consumed unnecessarily, (if used 24/7/365) uses 87.6 kWh in a year, costs £10.63 extra per year (at current PP rates) and generates 30.8 kg of CO2 (I used THISwebsite to calculate the CO2).
    Also if your family is prone to leaving lights on LED lightbulbs can reduce consumption considerably. The prices of these have reduced a lot recently so they are a good energy saving proposition (halogen light bulbs are not).
    I know the big items are responsible for most of the consumption, driers, washers, kettles and similar, but they aren't on 24 hours a day 365 days a year.
    So where possible switch it off at the mains if you're not using it, or for digital tv boxes etc, use the to eco settings if it needs to be on 24/7 (if you can tolerate the slow start up time!)

    *Routers often have an energy saving setting but sometimes they can cause problems- if in doubt search before you do any tweaking of your router energy saver settings

    I have a feeling I'm going to regret posting this...
    The following is sung to the tune of "Every Breath You Take"

    Every watt you use
    All the power you lose
    Every extra switched
    Extra power ditched
    I'll be costing you


    Every single day
    Every watt you save
    Every time you play
    Every light to stay
    I'll be costing you


    Oh can't you see
    You're wasting energy
    My poor heart aches
    That CO2 you make


    Every move you make
    All the power you take
    Leaving on that switch
    Means you won't get rich
    I'll be costing you
    6
  • Most people don't realise the importance of getting their average standing power consumption down as low as possible. This is the power your property is using while you or your appliances aren't doing anything (much). It's pushed higher by leaving unnecessary items on standby or leaving stuff on that doesn't need to be on. What people forget is that this is energy that's used 24 hours a day 365 days a year. It might not seem that significant leaving a few items on standby but it soon mounts up
    Obviously there are things you can't control, the fridge and any security devices and routers* need to be powered all the time, but there are often items left on standby that don't need to be.
    To give you some idea of the cost, at current PP prices every 10 Watts of power consumed unnecessarily, (if used 24/7/365) uses 87.6 kWh in a year, costs £10.63 extra per year (at current PP rates) and generates 30.8 kg of CO2 (I used THISwebsite to calculate the CO2).
    Also if your family is prone to leaving lights on LED lightbulbs can reduce consumption considerably. The prices of these have reduced a lot recently so they are a good energy saving proposition (halogen light bulbs are not).
    I know the big items are responsible for most of the consumption, driers, washers, kettles and similar, but they aren't on 24 hours a day 365 days a year.
    So where possible switch it off at the mains if you're not using it, or for digital tv boxes etc, use the to eco settings if it needs to be on 24/7 (if you can tolerate the slow start up time!)

    *Routers often have an energy saving setting but sometimes they can cause problems- if in doubt search before you do any tweaking of your router energy saver settings

    I have a feeling I'm going to regret posting this...
    The following is sung to the tune of "Every Breath You Take"

    Every watt you use
    All the power you lose
    Every extra switched
    Extra power ditched
    I'll be costing you


    Every single day
    Every watt you save
    Every time you play
    Every light to stay
    I'll be costing you


    Oh can't you see
    You're wasting energy
    My poor heart aches
    That CO2 you make


    Every move you make
    All the power you take
    Leaving on that switch
    Means you won't get rich
    I'll be costing you
  • Some good points @woz saving money and energy can be simple sometimes as for the song hmmm i reckon sting would be foolish not to pick it up would make a great tv advert.....
    0
  • Some good points @woz saving money and energy can be simple sometimes as for the song hmmm i reckon sting would be foolish not to pick it up would make a great tv advert.....
  • Quote Originally Posted by woz View Post

    I have a feeling I'm going to regret posting this...
    The following is sung to the tune of "Every Breath You Take"

    Every watt you use
    All the power you lose
    Every extra switched
    Extra power ditched
    I'll be costing you


    Every single day
    Every watt you save
    Every time you play
    Every light to stay
    I'll be costing you


    Oh can't you see
    You're wasting energy
    My poor heart aches
    That CO2 you make


    Every move you make
    All the power you take
    Leaving on that switch
    Means you won't get rich
    I'll be costing you
    Hahaha @woz this is v cool! Very creative - love it!
    The next challenge would be to sing it with a guitar

    We had to tweet this, so cool

    Name:  Woz The Police tweet.JPG
Views: 195
Size:  38.5 KB
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

    0
  • Quote Originally Posted by woz View Post

    I have a feeling I'm going to regret posting this...
    The following is sung to the tune of "Every Breath You Take"

    Every watt you use
    All the power you lose
    Every extra switched
    Extra power ditched
    I'll be costing you


    Every single day
    Every watt you save
    Every time you play
    Every light to stay
    I'll be costing you


    Oh can't you see
    You're wasting energy
    My poor heart aches
    That CO2 you make


    Every move you make
    All the power you take
    Leaving on that switch
    Means you won't get rich
    I'll be costing you
    Hahaha @woz this is v cool! Very creative - love it!
    The next challenge would be to sing it with a guitar

    We had to tweet this, so cool

    Name:  Woz The Police tweet.JPG
Views: 195
Size:  38.5 KB
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

  • OMG that song is superb Woz! 😂👍👏, sooooo talented! 👏👍👍👍👍👏
    Peace is always beautiful.

    WALT WHITMAN
    0
  • OMG that song is superb Woz! 😂👍👏, sooooo talented! 👏👍👍👍👍👏
    Peace is always beautiful.

    WALT WHITMAN
  • Woz the wiz! Great work there chap I think you should give up your day job
    2
  • Woz the wiz! Great work there chap I think you should give up your day job
  • It's fantastic isn't it?! @woz clearly has a talent, and he's got several fans here anyway



    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzieboy View Post
    Woz the wiz! Great work there chap I think you should give up your day job ������
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

    0
  • It's fantastic isn't it?! @woz clearly has a talent, and he's got several fans here anyway



    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzieboy View Post
    Woz the wiz! Great work there chap I think you should give up your day job ������
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

  • Just come across this thread. For some of my appliances I have them plugged into an Eve power point (was Elgato Eve). Their purpose is to provide remote control but they also feed back the current consumption. For example my desktop computer is currently burning 49w and my broadband connection, which includes the router, 22w.
    0
  • Just come across this thread. For some of my appliances I have them plugged into an Eve power point (was Elgato Eve). Their purpose is to provide remote control but they also feed back the current consumption. For example my desktop computer is currently burning 49w and my broadband connection, which includes the router, 22w.
  • hi G4
    Interesting I didn't know it did that.
    Some routers have eco settings but the general consensus is that the bad side effects of using them far outweigh the extra costs of not using them.
    There is no doubt that much better automatic power management is required especially as most people don't ever configure (meddle with) their routers.
    Router manufacturers are responsible for a huge carbon footprint, especially now that home automation and security for many means you absolutely have to leave your router on 24/365¼, you can't even switch it off when you're on holiday...
    At least you can hibernate your desktop and effectively (or really) switch the monitor 'off'.
    Last edited by woz; 03-09-18 at 15:28. Reason: I smiled at a crocodile
    0
  • hi G4
    Interesting I didn't know it did that.
    Some routers have eco settings but the general consensus is that the bad side effects of using them far outweigh the extra costs of not using them.
    There is no doubt that much better automatic power management is required especially as most people don't ever configure (meddle with) their routers.
    Router manufacturers are responsible for a huge carbon footprint, especially now that home automation and security for many means you absolutely have to leave your router on 24/365¼, you can't even switch it off when you're on holiday...
    At least you can hibernate your desktop and effectively (or really) switch the monitor 'off'.
  • Do you use the Eve/HomePod set-up @G4RHL ?

    Quote Originally Posted by G4RHL View Post
    Just come across this thread. For some of my appliances I have them plugged into an Eve power point (was Elgato Eve). Their purpose is to provide remote control but they also feed back the current consumption. For example my desktop computer is currently burning 49w and my broadband connection, which includes the router, 22w.
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

    0
  • Do you use the Eve/HomePod set-up @G4RHL ?

    Quote Originally Posted by G4RHL View Post
    Just come across this thread. For some of my appliances I have them plugged into an Eve power point (was Elgato Eve). Their purpose is to provide remote control but they also feed back the current consumption. For example my desktop computer is currently burning 49w and my broadband connection, which includes the router, 22w.
    Community Manager - Pure Planet

  • This is really interesting, thanks @woz. I like the song, its the singing I'm not sure about

    Our lowest baseline is around 350w. I keep meaning to go round and switch things off to see where its coming from. As you infer though, I'm sure its the accumulation of many devices, dare I say, made worse as we put more "smart home" technology into the home.

    My biggest culprit though is going to be the fish tank which has some reasonably hungry pumps in it and also the bathroom under floor heating.

    In the graph below from the last 24 hours I can see the underfloor heater and / or tank filter going on and off especially in the middle of the night;

    Attachment 1276
    0
  • This is really interesting, thanks @woz. I like the song, its the singing I'm not sure about

    Our lowest baseline is around 350w. I keep meaning to go round and switch things off to see where its coming from. As you infer though, I'm sure its the accumulation of many devices, dare I say, made worse as we put more "smart home" technology into the home.

    My biggest culprit though is going to be the fish tank which has some reasonably hungry pumps in it and also the bathroom under floor heating.

    In the graph below from the last 24 hours I can see the underfloor heater and / or tank filter going on and off especially in the middle of the night;

    Attachment 1276
  • hi gil
    can't see the attachment (posting issue,but forget that for the moment), I'm curious, what did you use to produce the graph?

    Quote Originally Posted by dgilbert2 View Post
    This is really interesting, thanks @woz. I like the song, its the singing I'm not sure about

    Our lowest baseline is around 350w. I keep meaning to go round and switch things off to see where its coming from. As you infer though, I'm sure its the accumulation of many devices, dare I say, made worse as we put more "smart home" technology into the home.

    My biggest culprit though is going to be the fish tank which has some reasonably hungry pumps in it and also the bathroom under floor heating.

    In the graph below from the last 24 hours I can see the underfloor heater and / or tank filter going on and off especially in the middle of the night;

    Attachment 1276
    0
  • hi gil
    can't see the attachment (posting issue,but forget that for the moment), I'm curious, what did you use to produce the graph?

    Quote Originally Posted by dgilbert2 View Post
    This is really interesting, thanks @woz. I like the song, its the singing I'm not sure about

    Our lowest baseline is around 350w. I keep meaning to go round and switch things off to see where its coming from. As you infer though, I'm sure its the accumulation of many devices, dare I say, made worse as we put more "smart home" technology into the home.

    My biggest culprit though is going to be the fish tank which has some reasonably hungry pumps in it and also the bathroom under floor heating.

    In the graph below from the last 24 hours I can see the underfloor heater and / or tank filter going on and off especially in the middle of the night;

    Attachment 1276
  • @woz , I'll try again with the image;


    To get this, overtime I have been installing the LightwaveRF system. They have an "Energy Monitor" which by itself is not too helpful and so I use a Raspberry PI running Domoticz. Domoticz then runs a Python script to capture and log the energy usage over a full year. This system has also allowed me to have all my smarthome "stuff" in one place, to monitor and control from outside the home.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Umm, OK so images have got me beaten for now. The link to the image is;

    https://preview.ibb.co/n7hU8L/EM.jpg
    0
  • @woz , I'll try again with the image;


    To get this, overtime I have been installing the LightwaveRF system. They have an "Energy Monitor" which by itself is not too helpful and so I use a Raspberry PI running Domoticz. Domoticz then runs a Python script to capture and log the energy usage over a full year. This system has also allowed me to have all my smarthome "stuff" in one place, to monitor and control from outside the home.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Umm, OK so images have got me beaten for now. The link to the image is;

    https://preview.ibb.co/n7hU8L/EM.jpg
  • hi d @dgilbert
    interesting, and I don't have time to ask all the stuff I want to ask, so briefly
    1. Posting photos is iffy, sometimes it appears to work and doesn't, so you have to redo it, I've had it show on the preview and still not show when posted, an edit and re-upload seems to cure, I know not why..testing below...
    Name:  postphoto.jpg
Views: 87
Size:  3.2 KB
    it didn't show when posted trying again...uploaded again and it shows..what a pile of pants..
    2.I have a pi (might have guessed eh...but sadly I haven't been disciplined enough to exploit it properly, I spend too long on here)
    You're right by the way all those small wattage 24/365 really add up.
    Ironic that to keep tabs on the power you use more power..

    sorry if these questions are stupid, so..
    the lightwave monitor connects to wifi? is that correct?
    How does the lightwave system monitor power, does it only monitor things that are connected to the lightwave hardware?
    Domoticz connects to wifi? It interrogates the data from lightwave? is that correct?
    (and then you hang the python script on it to sample over time..)
    I'm impressed that you got all those things to talk to each other.

    Why is your bathroom underfloor not on a programmable thermostat? Or is it but it still comes on cos it's cold.
    Is the lightwave controlling the bathroom underfloor?
    We have an aquarium (or at least my wife does, I just commune with the old and revered fish occasionally), the pump drives me insane and led light is on 18 hours a day, I'm not allowed to switch it off.
    I suppose when the pump fails you have to try to find the most efficient one you can to replace it- problem is longevity and efficiency don't go hand in hand.
    later..
    w
    0
  • hi d @dgilbert
    interesting, and I don't have time to ask all the stuff I want to ask, so briefly
    1. Posting photos is iffy, sometimes it appears to work and doesn't, so you have to redo it, I've had it show on the preview and still not show when posted, an edit and re-upload seems to cure, I know not why..testing below...
    Name:  postphoto.jpg
Views: 87
Size:  3.2 KB
    it didn't show when posted trying again...uploaded again and it shows..what a pile of pants..
    2.I have a pi (might have guessed eh...but sadly I haven't been disciplined enough to exploit it properly, I spend too long on here)
    You're right by the way all those small wattage 24/365 really add up.
    Ironic that to keep tabs on the power you use more power..

    sorry if these questions are stupid, so..
    the lightwave monitor connects to wifi? is that correct?
    How does the lightwave system monitor power, does it only monitor things that are connected to the lightwave hardware?
    Domoticz connects to wifi? It interrogates the data from lightwave? is that correct?
    (and then you hang the python script on it to sample over time..)
    I'm impressed that you got all those things to talk to each other.

    Why is your bathroom underfloor not on a programmable thermostat? Or is it but it still comes on cos it's cold.
    Is the lightwave controlling the bathroom underfloor?
    We have an aquarium (or at least my wife does, I just commune with the old and revered fish occasionally), the pump drives me insane and led light is on 18 hours a day, I'm not allowed to switch it off.
    I suppose when the pump fails you have to try to find the most efficient one you can to replace it- problem is longevity and efficiency don't go hand in hand.
    later..
    w
  • Surely woz the answer to your fish tank pump problem is easy. Get the wife to blow down the pipe. Less noise less electric and she cant talk while blowing or the fish will die. Or have i over simplified the situation. Hahahaha.


    P.S. dont suggest this as previous comments to girls in the office about getting them to talk to a wind turbine on non windy days saw me banned from said office for several days.
    Last edited by Jon1; 02-11-18 at 23:16.
    2
  • Surely woz the answer to your fish tank pump problem is easy. Get the wife to blow down the pipe. Less noise less electric and she cant talk while blowing or the fish will die. Or have i over simplified the situation. Hahahaha.


    P.S. dont suggest this as previous comments to girls in the office about getting them to talk to a wind turbine on non windy days saw me banned from said office for several days.
  • I’m a girl and I’m still laughing Jon! Hilarious 😂😂😂😂👍
    Peace is always beautiful.

    WALT WHITMAN
    0
  • I’m a girl and I’m still laughing Jon! Hilarious 😂😂😂😂👍
    Peace is always beautiful.

    WALT WHITMAN
  • @Jon1 , you are so naughty! Unfortunately the pumps I'm talking about are submersible water ones, not air pumps LOL (for a Marine setup).

    OMG, what a shameful error though, I said my "filters" are going on and off, I meant the tanks heaters!! Doh!!
    @woz, many thanks for your interest, I will try to answer your questions below, but no questions are stupid where I come from, its just my answers which maybe

    As for posting photos, it seems if I "go advanced" it works;

    Name:  EM.jpg
Views: 84
Size:  26.5 KB

    The LightwaveRF Energy monitor works like a clamp meter, i.e. its sensor clamps around the live cable going to/from the houses meter, so picks up whatever electrical energy the "house" uses. It is powered by 4 AA batteries (which last 12 months plus) and connects wirelessly to the LightwaveRF link module, which in turn connects to the home network via an ethernet cable. The wireless side is not "wi-fi", it uses the 433MHz RF band. This is also how the Link module communicates with switches and dimmers around the house.

    The LightwaveRF link broadcasts (on UDP port 9761) every 15 seconds the energy monitor reading. The Python script on the PI is listening for this (on the home network by wi-fi) and then sends the energy values to Domoticz.

    The bathroom underfloor heating has its own specific controller (Not "smart", and not connected to home network). This has built-in timers which are supposed to lower the energy it puts into the floor heater during the day and overnight, ie its supposed to provide a warmer floor during the morning and evening periods only. The Energy meter though tells me that this is not working very well, so I need to take another look at its settings!

    My tank (as its marine) also monitors Temperature, PH, NH3, NH4 & light levels. Another script captures these and sends to Domoticz. As you can perhaps tell, I am quite addicted to Domoticz as it has all my Smart devices in one place for both monitoring and controlling things around the house. As an example, its capable of grouping together devices such as Nest, Hive, Philips Hue, Netatmo, Wemo, Arlo and so on....

    BE CAREFUL, all this gets quite addictive (and expensive!!), but to be able to do all the monitoring and controlling in one place, even when away from home is really useful.

    I could go on and bore everyone to death so I'll stop, but one last benefit to mention is when you link Domoticz to a security system (eg CCTV) so you can bring the house to life if someone starts snooping outside, ie lights, sound etc....
    Last edited by Gil; 03-11-18 at 19:41.
    0
  • @Jon1 , you are so naughty! Unfortunately the pumps I'm talking about are submersible water ones, not air pumps LOL (for a Marine setup).

    OMG, what a shameful error though, I said my "filters" are going on and off, I meant the tanks heaters!! Doh!!
    @woz, many thanks for your interest, I will try to answer your questions below, but no questions are stupid where I come from, its just my answers which maybe

    As for posting photos, it seems if I "go advanced" it works;

    Name:  EM.jpg
Views: 84
Size:  26.5 KB

    The LightwaveRF Energy monitor works like a clamp meter, i.e. its sensor clamps around the live cable going to/from the houses meter, so picks up whatever electrical energy the "house" uses. It is powered by 4 AA batteries (which last 12 months plus) and connects wirelessly to the LightwaveRF link module, which in turn connects to the home network via an ethernet cable. The wireless side is not "wi-fi", it uses the 433MHz RF band. This is also how the Link module communicates with switches and dimmers around the house.

    The LightwaveRF link broadcasts (on UDP port 9761) every 15 seconds the energy monitor reading. The Python script on the PI is listening for this (on the home network by wi-fi) and then sends the energy values to Domoticz.

    The bathroom underfloor heating has its own specific controller (Not "smart", and not connected to home network). This has built-in timers which are supposed to lower the energy it puts into the floor heater during the day and overnight, ie its supposed to provide a warmer floor during the morning and evening periods only. The Energy meter though tells me that this is not working very well, so I need to take another look at its settings!

    My tank (as its marine) also monitors Temperature, PH, NH3, NH4 & light levels. Another script captures these and sends to Domoticz. As you can perhaps tell, I am quite addicted to Domoticz as it has all my Smart devices in one place for both monitoring and controlling things around the house. As an example, its capable of grouping together devices such as Nest, Hive, Philips Hue, Netatmo, Wemo, Arlo and so on....

    BE CAREFUL, all this gets quite addictive (and expensive!!), but to be able to do all the monitoring and controlling in one place, even when away from home is really useful.

    I could go on and bore everyone to death so I'll stop, but one last benefit to mention is when you link Domoticz to a security system (eg CCTV) so you can bring the house to life if someone starts snooping outside, ie lights, sound etc....
  • I like guppies. Just putting it out there 😂😂😂🐠
    Peace is always beautiful.

    WALT WHITMAN
    0
  • I like guppies. Just putting it out there 😂😂😂🐠
    Peace is always beautiful.

    WALT WHITMAN
  • @bev haha...first it's your emojis, now it's your guppies, where will this all end.....
    (and that's not a yoofermism...)

    - - - Updated - - -

    @dgilbert2 One comment I'd make, the clamp sensors are notoriously inaccurate/unreliable down at the bottom end and when sensing small changes in current so I'm surprised it appears to work so well (in my experience anyway but then mine may be crap).
    An alternative which only measures real time consumption would be to measure the light pulse frequency (or mark/space to be more accurate) of the flashing light on the meter, and that has been referred to in a post but (a).I can't find the post (b) I cant find a suitable commercial device but I'm sure there must be one and (c) it's not the same as measuring contemporaneous current as it's somewhat "quantised" so subject to a natural delay.
    The other thing I've not been able to prove satisfactorily to myself is how these low cost clamp setups handle out-of-phase current. Of course it's not a problem with the purely resistive heating but a lot of led lamps and switched supplies don't have a good power factor and generate lots of harmonics too.

    I did find THIS and as bonus it's quite an interesting website.

    Here's a thought..
    As an addendum to your aquarium heaters how about a coiled heat exchanger fed from the gas central heating with a thermostatically controlled shut off. A recipe for disaster or a genius idea, I'm not sure which...
    haha... I can bore everyone too...
    Quote Originally Posted by dgilbert2 View Post
    @Jon1 , you are so naughty! Unfortunately the pumps I'm talking about are submersible water ones, not air pumps LOL (for a Marine setup).

    OMG, what a shameful error though, I said my "filters" are going on and off, I meant the tanks heaters!! Doh!!
    @woz, many thanks for your interest, I will try to answer your questions below, but no questions are stupid where I come from, its just my answers which maybe

    As for posting photos, it seems if I "go advanced" it works;

    Name:  EM.jpg
Views: 84
Size:  26.5 KB

    The LightwaveRF Energy monitor works like a clamp meter, i.e. its sensor clamps around the live cable going to/from the houses meter, so picks up whatever electrical energy the "house" uses. It is powered by 4 AA batteries (which last 12 months plus) and connects wirelessly to the LightwaveRF link module, which in turn connects to the home network via an ethernet cable. The wireless side is not "wi-fi", it uses the 433MHz RF band. This is also how the Link module communicates with switches and dimmers around the house.

    The LightwaveRF link broadcasts (on UDP port 9761) every 15 seconds the energy monitor reading. The Python script on the PI is listening for this (on the home network by wi-fi) and then sends the energy values to Domoticz.

    The bathroom underfloor heating has its own specific controller (Not "smart", and not connected to home network). This has built-in timers which are supposed to lower the energy it puts into the floor heater during the day and overnight, ie its supposed to provide a warmer floor during the morning and evening periods only. The Energy meter though tells me that this is not working very well, so I need to take another look at its settings!

    My tank (as its marine) also monitors Temperature, PH, NH3, NH4 & light levels. Another script captures these and sends to Domoticz. As you can perhaps tell, I am quite addicted to Domoticz as it has all my Smart devices in one place for both monitoring and controlling things around the house. As an example, its capable of grouping together devices such as Nest, Hive, Philips Hue, Netatmo, Wemo, Arlo and so on....

    BE CAREFUL, all this gets quite addictive (and expensive!!), but to be able to do all the monitoring and controlling in one place, even when away from home is really useful.

    I could go on and bore everyone to death so I'll stop, but one last benefit to mention is when you link Domoticz to a security system (eg CCTV) so you can bring the house to life if someone starts snooping outside, ie lights, sound etc....
    - - - Updated - - -

    @jon1 hahaha...hilarious.

    Any reply to this could land me in serious trouble.... although I'm tempted...No!! behave yourself...(smacks self hard...)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon1 View Post
    Surely woz the answer to your fish tank pump problem is easy. Get the wife to blow down the pipe. Less noise less electric and she cant talk while blowing or the fish will die. Or have i over simplified the situation. Hahahaha.


    P.S. dont suggest this as previous comments to girls in the office about getting them to talk to a wind turbine on non windy days saw me banned from said office for several days.
    @Marc
    This site behaviour which puts replies to different posts which are .posted close together in time in the same box is er..annoying...can it be fixed or is it me doing something wrong?
    Last edited by woz; 04-11-18 at 02:00.
    1
  • @bev haha...first it's your emojis, now it's your guppies, where will this all end.....
    (and that's not a yoofermism...)

    - - - Updated - - -

    @dgilbert2 One comment I'd make, the clamp sensors are notoriously inaccurate/unreliable down at the bottom end and when sensing small changes in current so I'm surprised it appears to work so well (in my experience anyway but then mine may be crap).
    An alternative which only measures real time consumption would be to measure the light pulse frequency (or mark/space to be more accurate) of the flashing light on the meter, and that has been referred to in a post but (a).I can't find the post (b) I cant find a suitable commercial device but I'm sure there must be one and (c) it's not the same as measuring contemporaneous current as it's somewhat "quantised" so subject to a natural delay.
    The other thing I've not been able to prove satisfactorily to myself is how these low cost clamp setups handle out-of-phase current. Of course it's not a problem with the purely resistive heating but a lot of led lamps and switched supplies don't have a good power factor and generate lots of harmonics too.

    I did find THIS and as bonus it's quite an interesting website.

    Here's a thought..
    As an addendum to your aquarium heaters how about a coiled heat exchanger fed from the gas central heating with a thermostatically controlled shut off. A recipe for disaster or a genius idea, I'm not sure which...
    haha... I can bore everyone too...
    Quote Originally Posted by dgilbert2 View Post
    @Jon1 , you are so naughty! Unfortunately the pumps I'm talking about are submersible water ones, not air pumps LOL (for a Marine setup).

    OMG, what a shameful error though, I said my "filters" are going on and off, I meant the tanks heaters!! Doh!!
    @woz, many thanks for your interest, I will try to answer your questions below, but no questions are stupid where I come from, its just my answers which maybe

    As for posting photos, it seems if I "go advanced" it works;

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    The LightwaveRF Energy monitor works like a clamp meter, i.e. its sensor clamps around the live cable going to/from the houses meter, so picks up whatever electrical energy the "house" uses. It is powered by 4 AA batteries (which last 12 months plus) and connects wirelessly to the LightwaveRF link module, which in turn connects to the home network via an ethernet cable. The wireless side is not "wi-fi", it uses the 433MHz RF band. This is also how the Link module communicates with switches and dimmers around the house.

    The LightwaveRF link broadcasts (on UDP port 9761) every 15 seconds the energy monitor reading. The Python script on the PI is listening for this (on the home network by wi-fi) and then sends the energy values to Domoticz.

    The bathroom underfloor heating has its own specific controller (Not "smart", and not connected to home network). This has built-in timers which are supposed to lower the energy it puts into the floor heater during the day and overnight, ie its supposed to provide a warmer floor during the morning and evening periods only. The Energy meter though tells me that this is not working very well, so I need to take another look at its settings!

    My tank (as its marine) also monitors Temperature, PH, NH3, NH4 & light levels. Another script captures these and sends to Domoticz. As you can perhaps tell, I am quite addicted to Domoticz as it has all my Smart devices in one place for both monitoring and controlling things around the house. As an example, its capable of grouping together devices such as Nest, Hive, Philips Hue, Netatmo, Wemo, Arlo and so on....

    BE CAREFUL, all this gets quite addictive (and expensive!!), but to be able to do all the monitoring and controlling in one place, even when away from home is really useful.

    I could go on and bore everyone to death so I'll stop, but one last benefit to mention is when you link Domoticz to a security system (eg CCTV) so you can bring the house to life if someone starts snooping outside, ie lights, sound etc....
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    @jon1 hahaha...hilarious.

    Any reply to this could land me in serious trouble.... although I'm tempted...No!! behave yourself...(smacks self hard...)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon1 View Post
    Surely woz the answer to your fish tank pump problem is easy. Get the wife to blow down the pipe. Less noise less electric and she cant talk while blowing or the fish will die. Or have i over simplified the situation. Hahahaha.


    P.S. dont suggest this as previous comments to girls in the office about getting them to talk to a wind turbine on non windy days saw me banned from said office for several days.
    @Marc
    This site behaviour which puts replies to different posts which are .posted close together in time in the same box is er..annoying...can it be fixed or is it me doing something wrong?
  • Hi @woz, yes, agree with you on clamp meter accuracy. In practice for this application, the LightwaveRF monitor does seem quite accurate though. I have compared the actual meter readings over a week and the difference is less than 1kWhr when using about 100kWhr. So at 1% error, I'm quite happy for what I'm using it for.

    The MySensors option of measuring the "blinking" meter light is a really interesting option. I've not gone down the MySensors route though so cannot comment further, but I do see its a built in interface option for Domoticz.

    The concept reminded me of the BBC Micro Live TV programmes in the early 80's. They used a small flashing white square on the TV screen which you fixed a sensor, similar to the MySensors one in theory, which connected to the BBC computer and you could "download" software off your TV screen. Brilliant fun at the time
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  • Hi @woz, yes, agree with you on clamp meter accuracy. In practice for this application, the LightwaveRF monitor does seem quite accurate though. I have compared the actual meter readings over a week and the difference is less than 1kWhr when using about 100kWhr. So at 1% error, I'm quite happy for what I'm using it for.

    The MySensors option of measuring the "blinking" meter light is a really interesting option. I've not gone down the MySensors route though so cannot comment further, but I do see its a built in interface option for Domoticz.

    The concept reminded me of the BBC Micro Live TV programmes in the early 80's. They used a small flashing white square on the TV screen which you fixed a sensor, similar to the MySensors one in theory, which connected to the BBC computer and you could "download" software off your TV screen. Brilliant fun at the time
  • The problem with measuring the light frequency is that it isn’t telling you the instant consumption but the time it’s taken to consume, so from an overall logging viewpoint long term it would be great, but not quite so good for analysing events afterwards. The consumption accuracy would be perfect. I’m impressed with 1% I can’t get anywhere near that with mine and I’ve compared it to a clamp meter.
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  • The problem with measuring the light frequency is that it isn’t telling you the instant consumption but the time it’s taken to consume, so from an overall logging viewpoint long term it would be great, but not quite so good for analysing events afterwards. The consumption accuracy would be perfect. I’m impressed with 1% I can’t get anywhere near that with mine and I’ve compared it to a clamp meter.