Just donning my flak jacket and hard hat for this one.
Given the cac-handed way that the SM project has been mismanaged to the tune of £ millions of wasted taxpayers money, it's not hard to see why "The struggling image of the Smart Meter rollout" is well deserved. The press don't really need to do much to fuel it.
You may well have to give permission to the supplier, and you can audit as much as you like, but some people have concerns about where their data is going and what it's going to be used for. As far as I'm aware, and I haven't had the pleasure of reading one of the permission forms yet to see who it covers, (perhaps you have a sample?), the data first goes to the DCC which is privately run by the Capita group, before it then goes off to either Arquiva ( who run lots of TV transmitters) or Telefonica (Spanish owned mobile phones and data communications - think O2), before it reaches energy suppliers or other "authorised" parties.
As far as the every 30 minutes part is concerned, I don't really see what difference it makes to the argument as to whether they are measuring how much you use in 30 minutes or providing a reading of the previous 30 mins consumption. I agree the DM story sensationalised it, but hey, that's what you expect from the DM.
I also agree that the article didn't ask the question "What's the point of having a smart meter if you aren't going to allow the data to be used?"
I think the question that's not being addressed in the press is, having rolled out this multi-million pound project, who will benefit? (Assuming it ever works properly)
The initial benefit is that people won't have to provide meter readings, but then they didn't have to provide them in the first place, a dodgy looking bloke (maybe there are blokesses too?) used to turn up and read the meter (or rob you depending on whether they were genuine), so perhaps a bit of a benefit there but not for the dodgy looking blokes who lost their jobs.
Beneficial tariffs based on data? Maybe...one day...
Smart meters do not provide the only data available to the grid in real-time, they just enable finer parsing of the data.
If the data were easily available to the consumer and could be integrated with IFTTT or similar, then there is a whole raft of possibilities...
So in answer to your buggedness, chill and de-bug - I don't see the project being scrapped (yet), you're safe for now.
There are blokesses! One came to read the meters at the last property I was at. The meter was 3 floors down in the car park. It hadn't occurred to me that she was rather petite and the meter was rather high. Consequently, we ended up with a Morcambe & Wise reading with all the right digits but not necessarily in the right order!
It was a major task to convince the supplier that a mistake had been made, even though the apparent consumption was extreme compared to normal usage. In the end I had to supply my Excel spreadsheet of a couple of years worth of weekly readings before they would believe me.
So roll on smart meters, even though I am yet to be convinced that the energy companies are in any way capable of dealing with the data.
Having moved my gas to SSE this week, I await the SMETS2 meters my tariff obliges me to have with interest!
I don't disagree - the SMIP is in a predicament at the moment and the industry hasn't thought everything through; it's been delayed time and time again to the point now that no one's really that bothered. However, some of the information being put out there to make things worse doesn't help and for those of us on the front line (to continue your 'war' theme ;) ) it just irks us - I'm always chill so no worries on that front.
There are some good benefits to the industry and I think that, really, is where the true importance lies but Smart Energy GB have focused too much on "you don't have to take a meter reading anymore" which no one's really bothered about. The meters being able to alert when it has gone off supply or it's being tampered with should help the networks plan capacity and outages a bit better and who knows; when we're all forced to be on electric vehicles, smart meters will allow us to save a bunch more by them automatically charging at the right time (because the meter has told the EV when to activate).
It's all good debate :) and I'm just here to provide the inside scoop/facts
I find the new stuff fascinating. Imagine when every outlet on the network is smart metered; you can compare what's going in with what's going out - maybe regionally - and see what the losses in the network are. For gas that could lead to more intelligent leak detection.
And the ability to buy energy from different suppliers to charge EVs sounds exciting. But I'm a geek so it's probably just me!
> Hi Dutch, these are monitors not smart meters, so maybe worth their own thread? Clip on electricity monitors
> are usually pretty inaccurate the lower the consumption. Have you compared the readings you're getting with
> your meters?
Feel free to move this to a new thread as suggested.
As Mentioned by @talldave this is an energy monitor rather than a smart meter although that does not make it a bad thing. See - https://www.loopenergysaver.com/
Here are some points on this topic.
The traditional device provided with a Smart Meter is an IHD - In Home Display. This can display near real time usage on a display and (not yet having one) might show some historical data. Typically these devices give no other access.
It is less known but equally possible to get a CAD - Consumer Access Device. This uses the same technology as an IHD and indeed some devices do both roles. However a CAD makes it possible to access this data either via a cloud service or locally in the home. The CAD might be for example linked to an existing smart home platform like Samsung Smartthings.
Apparently the IHD provided by PurePlanet as part of their test SMETS2 rollout is a Geo Together Trio II Touch Button. Which is an IHD but can in theory also act as a CAD. (It needs an optional WiFi module to do this.)
It is in theory possible to buy your own CAD device. The smart meters, IHD and CAD devices all talk to either other using the Zigbee wireless standard.
IHD and CAD devices should be considered as part of the smart meter family.
Energy Monitoring devices work differently. These typically work by using a clamp on the main electrical cable to measure power consumption and an optical sensor to watch the numbers changing on the gas meter. The product mentioned by Dutch is one of this type.
There are some other similar Energy Monitoring products like this worth mentioning.
There is the 'Smappee' range. See - https://www.smappee.com/be_en/homepage
And there is the 'Sense' range. See - https://sense.com/
Smappee have monitors for Electricity, Gas and even Water. It also has the option of monitoring solar panel energy output. It claims to be able to detect individual appliances and extract their individual power consumption. This latter aspect is not however fool proof or complete.
Sense only seem to have an electricity monitor but they also claim to be able to identify the consumption of individual appliances and claim to have smart algorithms to do this. Last I checked Sense did not support Europe.
Smappee looks an interesting option especially if you have solar panels. I would regard their claims of appliance level monitoring however as only a bonus and should not be regarded as the main reason to purchase it.
Annoyingly - and this is not Smappee's fault, UK water meters are typically positioned at the edge of the public footpath next to your house. This makes it impractical to impossible to connect the Smappee sensor to it due to both range issues and the (UK) water companies likely being confused/upset and the possibility either the cable would have to go across the surface in to the (top) opening or for you to have to drill a hole in to the side underground. UK water utilities are of course like all other (especially UK) utilities and politicians practically technically illiterate and have no comprehension about this sort of stuff.
I personally am looking to start off with a CAD device, probably the one provided by 'TheLabrador' energy switching service. See - https://kb.thelabrador.co.uk/trouble...rador-home-hub Currently this only reports to their system and is not accessible on your LAN but they are working on this. Later I plan to fit solar panels (tiles) and might then get Smappee as well.
I see there’s ample opportunity to make the rollout of smart meters a lot more relevant to customers by giving them CAD devices. This would vastly improve buyin for what appears up till now to be an excruciatingly painful rollout. Unfortunately I doubt that this is genuinely being considered by many energy suppliers, or at least from where I am sitting, I don’t see much evidence that the benefit from smart meters is a greater access to data which customers could benefit (for those that choose to do so). I think companies should offer a basic smart meter for free, and for more people with a higher tolerance for Technology and ability to utilise it, a CAD device with all bells and whistles. I don’t mind paying (extra) for something that is closer to my needs and expectations.
That’s why, in the absence of such choice, I tolerate the smallish inaccuracy that my Loop energy saver monitors provides, because I do get much more detailed insight in consumption patterns, weekly summary, tariff comparisons, and most importantly Loop energy saver has enabled my energy saving activities to become data-driven. And everything is accessible on my tablet when and where I want it, not some standalone device that itself consumes electricity.
Of course, ideally I want every bit of raw data in the granularity that is being measured. And I already provided feedback to Loop to what I see are opportunities to improve accuracy (using led sensor for the electricity meter for instance), offset value for gas monitoring to compensate for any inaccuracy, and API access to the data feed. Ideally you’d like to interlink the Tado heating data and Loop energy gas monitoring so gas usage can be segmented even further by usage type cooking/hot water/heating etc etc.
Funny you mentioned sense.com- I am subscribed to their mailing list hoping to be notified if they ever enter the EU market using U.K. as a springboard. Loop energy saver is looking into the into the possibility of providing appliance-level energy consumption monitoring similar to sense.
In the meantime I’ve hooked up sonoff POW R2 smart switches to some of my appliances to endulge my desire for energy consumption monitoring on appliance level, as well as some smart switches to devices so I can control them based on time or occupancy via ifttt and Tado’s geolocation.
How times have changed in the 30-33 years since I order my first energy monitor from Conrad Electronics... :-)
I haven’t yet reflashed any, but in fact I started looking up YT tutorials last night for the easiest solder-free method and what hardware to buy for the basic switches. I haven’t yet looked into the benefit of doing so for the POW R2’s but will do so in due course. Why did you ask?
I haven’t checked the accuracy POW R2 readings, but on YouTube someone ran daily comparison (not sure how scientifically accurate it was) over 30 days and arrived at accuracy of < +/-1%, measured against a power meter with a +/-1.5% accuracy. I have two plug-in energy monitors, including the fore-mentioned 33 year-old device, but didn’t see the need to test the POW R2 accuracy because I am interested in indicative figures for now (But the YT vid gave me some comfort that the POW R2’s are pretty accurate, and even if accuracy was 2-4% I’d be ok about that.)
The initial reason I bought a number of POW R2’s was so I could measure over a year just how much dishwasher, washing machine, pool pump during summer months, plus daily recharging of portable Consumer Electronic devices consumed as these are the things I identified that I could feasibly time shift to benefit a time-based tariff. As someone who’s interested in disruptive innovation, I am interested to see if Agile Octopus’ approach to allow consumers time switch and benefit from dynamic pricing has any merit whatsoever. At the moment I am assuming that my ‘time-shiftable’ energy consumption is too low for it to be worthwhile, but I’ll know more in 1-4 months’ time...
Because I don't want to have to rely on the eWelink app and Chinese server
Increased functionality/flexibility (although see below)
Being able to use the Apple homekit infrastructure as I'm ios, although this conflicts with above but Tasmota doesn't yet incorporate the ability to use Apple without an additional server. There is a firmware which will allow it without that, but it's a one-shot deal and I'm not ready yet.
Just dipped my toe into some kasa smart sockets, as I got a good deal (or wouldn't have bothered).
Again no Apple support unless you pay 3x the price!!
You're better off soldering some header pins to the board (if you're confident about soldering), otherwise you'll need to clamp the pins on- which is not a good way to proceed unless you have a reliable clamp, you could make one with a wooden clothes peg some pins bits of wire and a glue gun...(that isn't a joke)
I am currently not so worried about server/manufacturer location: my IoT smart devices are kept on a separate guest SSID with no access to the LAN, Nas, and away from main/guest/kids/work SSIDs.
I also turned budget switches to smart ones with start-up smarthook, which looked promising on Kickstarter but the start-up ceased business. It still works though...
I haven’t experimented yet with the yeti app, so don’t know if any smart app functionality is lost or not.
I’m liking the look of this solderless technique: https://youtu.be/UDnNI5wkNNY
Good idea, never thought of that assuming router supports it (prob does).
How does/did the smarthook work? By budget do you mean LAN only? Not sure what you mean...
I have to say the Kasa seems well made, but haven't bought a Sonoff yet, though likely will do if only to wreck (or modify).
(What have you got against soldering other than perhaps you've never tried it and haven't got an iron and solder)