I was recently contacted to arrange an appointment to have smart meters fitted. All was going well until they found out I had an economy 7 Meter. They told me I had to contact PP to get it sorted so they can then fit a smart meter. PP - what do I need to do?
05-06-19, 20:58AndyLEconomy 7 Meter
Hello @AndyL and welcome to the community.
This forum is mainly used by other customers such as yourself.
To get the attention of Pure Planet, from the app select Help and use WattBot. It is important that the first line of text you enter reads 'Message the team' as this will alert a Pure Planet member of staff that some human intervention is required. You can then explain your concern and you will get a response within 2 workings days.
The only thing I can think of here is maybe pp told them it wasn’t eco7 or specified 1 meter when you have 2, but as far as the fitting goes they should be able to cope with either. Do you have 1 electric meter or 2?
Go to help in the app and type message the team and ask there.
I have one digital electric meter with a single display and a button that switches between normal and E7 readings. The SM fitting company didnt have any E7 smart meters in stock - I asked them when they would be in stock and they eventually said they don't fit them.
Thanks for the replies, I've asked the team in WattBot and will post back when I get an answer.
hmmm, not very satisfactory, furthermore my understanding is the E7 and single rate meters are the same device merely configured differently?
PP has lots of E7 customers, if that was the case it would have thought it would be highlighted by now - perhaps it's area dependant.
Looking forward to your update.
AndyL does actually have storage heaters connected to a dual output meter?
I believe your thinking is incorrect.
PP does offer E7, but the day and night rates happen to be the same. As an E7 customer you maintain the status of E7 on the meter database. If you were to move to another provider you would then have to take an E7 tariff although some providers (bg for one) do allow you to take a single rate tariff but you still have to submit both readings.
Meter manufacturers may produce 2 meters but for installations where all that happens is a change to the metering without having to supply a different circuit, it would make sense to use the same meter. I don’t know if that’s what happens. As far as i know E7 does not prevent you using whichever appliances you choose at whichever time you choose.
Ok I think we might have to agree to disagree. E7 by definition offers cheaper night time electricity (nominally for 7 hours) and PP do not support such a tariff. They only offer a non-E7 tariff, but can support customers with E7 meters (I am on such an arrangement, although am in the process of switching to a supplier on an E7 tarrif!).
And some E7 installations had storage heaters wired to a separate meter output that was only live during the cheaper hours.
ahhh I see what you mean. My point was that you are still classified as being on E7 as far as your supplier is concerned.
Yes, I appreciate some installations may have 2 circuits, in which case maybe a different meter is called for.
Perhaps @Mr Smart can tell us what the situation is in either circumstance as to whether when there is only one circuit the SM is a common model.
Which supplier are you moving to if you don't mind me asking?
We're checking this out with our smart installer at the mo - if there's no issue they'll call you back to arrange the appointment.
So - we don't install economy 7 meters or have an economy 7 tariff but we DO support economy 7 meters (so people with an eco 7 meter can switch to us).
The only difference is that people with economy 7 wouldn't pay a different rate for the day and night usage.
Your meter would still be classed as economy 7 on the national database even if you switched to us :up:
This reply is very confusing I can't make any sense of it at all.
Can you tell me when you install a smart meter at a property that has Economy 7 does the meter register both day and night rates, and the customer enter both figures in the app?
Furthermore where there is an installation which has 2 separate circuits, where for example the night circuit switches heating which cant't be used during the day (is that still classed as E7?? I thought there were houses with that configuration but I may be wrong?) then the meter would have to have ability for both day and night and not be a single rate meter (or the installation would have to be rewired by the installer, and I suspect this would be beyond the remit of the installer(s)
This is very important to me and I suspect to others.
My understanding is that if you have an E7 installation you are expected to have 2 readings and that needs to be maintained. A single rate meter won't do that. The consequence of that is that were you to move away from PP to another supplier your installation would no longer match what was on the database AND you would not have maintained the integrity of having 2 readings which would be expected at your next supplier.
Put simply I don't accept that you can/should install a single rate meter when the customer has E7.
After all why should the customer have to go to the trouble of having a new meter, forced by PP if they want to change suppliers? It makes no sense either logically and ecologically
Thanks Dave, I thought it might be them; my night time is similar, most E7 tariffs have higher break-even points, it's always been an issue but only because I've been unable to persuade the rest of the family to change consumption behaviour. Well at least I no longer have the discussions while I'm being supplied by PP!
Good luck sorry to see you go.
It's a bit confusing, I think it'll be easier to split this into traditional meters and smart meters:
- if we fit a smart meter at someone's property, while they're with us it'll be programmed as single rate as we only have one tariff.
- if they switch supplier and want to go back to an economy 7 tariff, the new supplier can set the meter to be economy 7 and show two rates. This is in part because once you're SMETS 2, you're no longer classed as 1 rate or 2 rate on the national database, but rather as being 'smart'.
- For a house that's on 2 separate circuits, for now we wouldn't fit a smart meter at their property. This will become available in 2020 though.
- currently, if someone is economy 7 there is the functionality in the app for them to submit both sets of readings (day and night), but both sets of readings are charged at the same rate.
- we'd always discuss with the member first that we'd be installing a single rate meter to ensure they're aware of what's being fitted (this would usually only happen in the case of a faulty meter exchange, for example).
Luckily an advantage of SMETS 2 is that once installed they can be programmed to either single rate or economy 7, so this 'traditional' issue will no longer arise.
Hi Natalie, did you get anywhere with my SM install?
hi Nataly thanks for the reply.
I think further clarification is required (or at least for me):
"- if we fit a smart meter at someone's property, while they're with us it'll be programmed as single rate as we only have one tariff. "
"Luckily an advantage of SMETS 2 is that once installed they can be programmed to either single rate or economy 7, so this 'traditional' issue will no longer arise"
If that's the case then why program it at a single rate when it's E7? It should be programmed at two rates but both rates happen to be the same?
This situation is very confused, I asked about this previously when there was a thread about asking questions about smart meters. This information conflicts with my understanding of what was said in that thread.
You may only have one tariff but here is the issue as I see it; those who have chosen E7 have done so because they consider that there is an advantage for them.
At present with any supplier and with PP when the customer does not have a smart meter they can continue to know and monitor their usage and day/night ratio (albeit with PP and a few other suppliers) the rates charged are the same for day & night, but they will still have a record of their ratio and usage. This is important when they look to switch to other tariffs/suppliers. In other words they, (and presumably some database somewhere?) will have a record of their day and night usage.
If not then customers will need some means of a trail of their usage or how are they going to be able to know what tariff will suit in the future?
If you don't properly support E7 customers this should be made clear and writ large in the terms and conditions and in the FAQ.
My understanding was/is that as you offer to take on E7 customers without asking them to change their status to single rate, then, ergo you support E7. If opting to have a SM changes that "understanding" it certainly hasn't been made clear.
My expectations may conflict with reality, but what I would want and expect in the short term, until ofgem/dno/supplier can tell me otherwise, is that a replacement meter will continue to monitor my day night usage, (a legacy and crude but better than no information) that if the dno or by virtue of a meter change the current timings change, I should be informed, and ongoing if I choose a SM that I'm able to access sufficient information to enable me to make an informed choice on future tariffs.
If the statement "once you're SMETS 2, you're no longer classed as 1 rate or 2 rate on the national database, but rather as being 'smart'." is the case then Ofgem, in conjunction with the energy suppliers need to clarify what this means for consumers.
This whole E7 issue is a mess, further complicated by whether, in an E7 install where there is a teleswitch (radio time switch) controlling the day night switch, this remains in place when a SM is fitted, or whether that functionality is fully migrated to the SM itself.
I fully admit I don't have all the information to make an informed decision, but more to the point until all of these points are clarified I don't think anyone on E7 is able to make an informed decision.
I don't think this situation is of PP's making, but there is a strong case to be made for a clear FAQ.
@woz makes a very good point. You can only contemplate an E7 tariff if you know what your day/night consumption figures are. With non-smart meters the customer has this information available from the meter.
I think the problem with smart meters is getting access to the data. If, as rumoured, they grab half hourly readings then suppliers will have all the information they need to analyse the customer's consumption profile and recommend (or automatically chose) the best tariff for them.
The reality is that energy companies (PP excluded perhaps!) are IT dinosaurs who struggle with a few readings a year. We can therefore guess that it'll be years before customers have the ability to analyse their consumption data in any meaningful way. In which case it may be true that smart meters will result in consumers losing the ability to know whether E7 is economical for them or not.
We're all speculating though, so some facts would be useful.
13-06-19, 15:12MaexchenWon’t install because of „economy 7“
I got a call to book an appointment for smart meter installation but in the end they said they won’t be able because I’m on “economy 7” (had to google what that means). It is correct that I do have a meter with two counters and a “radio switch” box. But pureplanet does not offer an economy tariff and all my electricity is supplied at the same price and it seems like “economy 7” is phased out anyway. So I’m confused. Are they planning to install another meter with functionality I don’t need at a later point?
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I actually found an old discussion (well, from last week).
I think the whole point of a smart meter is that it is SMART so I should be able to get one now and if i ever switch to another provider with E7 the meter should be able to charge the variable tariff.
was it THIS you read?