Solved

Membership fee in latest statement.


Hi to all,
I've just checked my latest statement which arrived today. Can someone explain how the membership fee is "actually" applied to the bill. I understand that it's £8.00 per fuel, however on my statement it shows it as £8.11 .
Is it possible that the software has just simply not applied the correct /new membership fee ??
I have a spreadsheet that I use to check/monitor my account, and it was obvious that my spreadsheet info and the statement didn't match.
Do I need to utilise a formula to ascertain the monthly fee, as opposed to just using an £8.00 input.
The formula would be......(8.00 x 12) ÷ 365 then multiplied by number of days per month/period. However by using this formula the fee for this statement would not be the £8.11 shown on my statement.

Any ideas anyone
icon

Best answer by Gray4276 24 September 2019, 23:57

Apparently PP have the solution and will be informing me/everyone concerned tomorrow exactly what they intend to do to rectify this.
I really can't wait to see what they have come up with..... I bet it's very complicated... 👀👍🤔🤯
View original

109 replies

Userlevel 7
Badge +9
Hi just read these answers to another members concerns yesterday..its just that the timing for the decrease will not match your billing period because all our billing periods are based on the date we joined:

https://community.purepla.net/threads/5163-Standing-charges?p=26704#post26704
Userlevel 7
Badge +10
hi Gray4276
good luck with this one, I gave up trying to work out how to get my extremely comprehensive spreadsheet to match, I've learnt to live with an approximate 10p discrepancy. I think it's monthly and based on 30.417 days in a month, then the daily single days are adjusted up or down as necessary, but I think (untested due to price changes) it does work out over a year.
I've posted about this a few times. Sadly I'm not clever enough to emulate the system PP use, but if you come up with a formula that works let us know (hint, I've wasted hours on this and don't forget to add the 5%vat)
If the rate changes the individual days are calculated or subtracted - I think.
Gray4276;26774:
Hi to all,
I've just checked my latest statement which arrived today. Can someone explain how the membership fee is "actually" applied to the bill. I understand that it's £8.00 per fuel, however on my statement it shows it as £8.11 .
Is it possible that the software has just simply not applied the correct /new membership fee ??
I have a spreadsheet that I use to check/monitor my account, and it was obvious that my spreadsheet info and the statement didn't match.
Do I need to utilise a formula to ascertain the monthly fee, as opposed to just using an £8.00 input.
The formula would be......(8.00 x 12) ÷ 365 then multiplied by number of days per month/period. However by using this formula the fee for this statement would not be the £8.11 shown on my statement.

Any ideas anyone
Hi Woz,
Thanks for the reply......I'm really happy with my spreadsheet, and it's very accurate to be honest.....even in Feb when the membership fee changed on the 15th....halfway through my statement period. However this latest statement shows a higher amount for the membership fee than I had expected. I have used Wotbot and messaged the team for an explanation. Once it has been explained to me, I will make any adjustment (if necessary) to my spreadsheet. I'm quite OCD and "need" my spreadsheet to be a true reflection of the billing process.
Can everyone check their next statement to see how the membership fee appears on thetheir bill.

​Cheers

- - - Updated - - -

Hi Strutt G,

I have read those previous posts....and that is not my point at all. I understand the details regarding the membership fee including the reduction in Feb. My spreadsheet calculations for Feb were "spot on" so I would have expected my calculations for March to be equally accurate. I'm also fully aware that our billing period is dependant on our individual joining date. My point was that the membership fee charged was £8.11 and not the £8.00 that I was expecting.....However if the monthly membership fee is calculated by £8.00 x 12 for the annual charge and then divided by 365 (for a daily charge) and multiplied by the number of days for the relevant month/period.....then it would not work out to be £8.11 for my March bill.
​Thanks for your assiassistance tho' really appappreciated.
Userlevel 7
Badge +9
Hi Gray4276, Oh sorry yes I really did miss the point...I keep accurate spreads and must look at the calcs again when I get a mo. Cheers!
Userlevel 7
Badge +9
Gray4276;26774:
Hi to all,
I've just checked my latest statement which arrived today. Can someone explain how the membership fee is "actually" applied to the bill. I understand that it's £8.00 per fuel, however on my statement it shows it as £8.11 .
Is it possible that the software has just simply not applied the correct /new membership fee ??
I have a spreadsheet that I use to check/monitor my account, and it was obvious that my spreadsheet info and the statement didn't match.
Do I need to utilise a f NJormula to ascertain the monthly fee, as opposed to just using an £8.00 input.
The formula would be......(8.00 x 12) ÷ 365 then multiplied by number of days per month/period. However by using this formula the fee for this statement would not be the £8.11 shown on my statement.

Any ideas anyone


Hi there

Certainly looks like an error - my bill last week showed membership fee of £7.62, which 5% vat turns into £8.001
Userlevel 7
Badge +9
Same same
Userlevel 7
Badge +8
Like Gray4276, my membership fee seems to be wrong. My statement covers 28 February to 30 March and membership fee for both fuels is stated as £8.36 ( plus vat = £8.77) less dual fuel discount of £1.21.
Something obviously not right, I have messaged the team to see if I can get an explanation.
Duppy;26807:
Like Gray4276, my membership fee seems to be wrong. My statement covers 28 February to 30 March and membership fee for both fuels is stated as £8.36 ( plus vat = £8.77) less dual fuel discount of £1.21.
Something obviously not right, I have messaged the team to see if I can get an explanation.


Hi Duppy....glad I'm not the only one !!! I've also been in contact with the team via Wotbot. I received an email from PP stating that I had a response...but when I logged in to see....no reply was showing.

Come on PP need to be doing better... please.
Gray4276;26823:
I received an email from PP stating that I had a response...but when I logged in to see....no reply was showing.

Hey @Gray4276
I'm checking this out. Was it an email or a text message from us?
Marc;26826:
Hey @Gray4276
I'm checking this out. Was it an email or a text message from us?


Hi Marc, it was a text msg and contained a link to a response in Wotbot. I opened the link and Wotbot was blank and was expecting a question input from me. I then logged into my app and opened the help tab, and opened Wotbot and there was a response from Rosie which stated that my request had been passed to the "team" for investigation.....can you please expedite this for me asap
Can I request that the following (recent) queries are addressed and a response initiated.
1. Direct Debit changed in 'Balance & Payments'
2. Increased Direct Debit payment taken (as above)
3. Incorrect membership fee applied in latest statement/bill

Sorry to hastle you......but I'm just trtrying to help PP sort out these little glitches in your systems to help PP to become even better at what you are already good at. Onwards and upwards 🕵️
Gray4276;26835:
Hi Marc, it was a text msg and contained a link to a response in Wotbot. I opened the link and Wotbot was blank and was expecting a question input from me.
I then logged into my app and opened the help tab, and opened Wotbot and there was a response from Rosie
Sorry to hastle you......but I'm just trtrying to help PP sort out these little glitches in your systems to help PP to become even better at what you are already good at. Onwards and upwards


No hassle at all! ;)
The issue was caused because you weren't logged into the app. That's why the link from the text message to WattBot was blank. 🆙
Marc;26837:
No hassle at all! ;)
The issue was caused because you weren't logged into the app. That's why the link from the text message to WattBot was blank. 🆙


Hi Marc, I'll bear that in mind for future reference.

How's it going with my other issues.....??
Userlevel 7
Badge +8
I have received a reply on Wattbot about the incorrect membership fee, apparently there is a glitch which is causing 3 extra days to be added, the billing team is working on it to find out what has happened and any extra charge refunded or credited.
Duppy;26850:
I have received a reply on Wattbot about the incorrect membership fee, apparently there is a glitch which is causing 3 extra days to be added, the billing team is working on it to find out what has happened and any extra charge refunded or credited.


Hi Duppy,
Hopefully I'll maybe get a reply from the team too soon.....quite a few glitches rearing their ugly little heads at the moment.

- - - Updated - - -


Duppy;26850:
I have received a reply on Wattbot about the incorrect membership fee, apparently there is a glitch which is causing 3 extra days to be added, the billing team is working on it to find out what has happened and any extra charge refunded or credited.


Hi Duppy,
Following on from my earlier reply.....so it charged for 33 days instead of 30 days.....that's really weird !!!!
Userlevel 7
Badge +10
hi Gray and @Marc
​I'm not sure if I'm OCD but I like my spreadsheet to be correct as do you. (I'm pedantic and mild OCD or to some I'm just an irritating ******)

You may wish to also consider the following:
You spreadsheet cannot accurately predict the conversion between volume and kWh for gas without knowing the calorific value. I've used an average CV on my spreadsheet and I back convert when I get the statement and work out what CV was used. On that basis your spreadsheet will never 100% accurately predict your gas costs unless the CV happens to be the same as the average you use.
The electricity costs work out to the penny- no problems with that.
The dual supply discount , hmm not sure now that I think about it....
I've already explained how I think the membership fee is calculated in my previous post, the issue as far as I can see is that it isn't actually charged monthly because that would lead to an anomaly in the daily rate since each month is a different number of days.
That would obviously lead to a discrepancy in the rate, so for example
Feb would be 27.211p + vat per day (not in a leap year) but January would be 24.5776p + vat, this is clearly not acceptable, so to get round this each month is assumed to be 365/12 days = 30.417 days (or maybe 365.25/12=30.4375? who knows?) A day is then approx either 25.049p+ vat (or 25.031p+ vat)
Then if the month is 30 days I assume approx 0.4 of a day is subtracted, or if 31 days 0.6 added etc.
This method then allows a split charge as single days can be used for adjustment in the case of price changes,or a customer leaving etc.
In reality it would make very little difference if the single days were calculated at the rate of £96 divided by 365 or 365.25 per day for adjustment.

Simply put this is caused because the membership fee is quoted monthly, but applied daily.

Please share any replies you get, I may be talking complete b*ll* bu.t when I looked it was the only explanation that fitted the figures and I'm not clever enough or prepared to spend any more time on my spreadsheet which consistently predicts my bill to within 10p (and I could probably get it to within a couple of pence with an "if " statement (If days=28 or 30 or 31 subtract amount xyz etc) because the error is consistent and it's near enough

Gray4276;26794:
Hi Woz,
Thanks for the reply......I'm really happy with my spreadsheet, and it's very accurate to be honest.....even in Feb when the membership fee changed on the 15th....halfway through my statement period. However this latest statement shows a higher amount for the membership fee than I had expected. I have used Wotbot and messaged the team for an explanation. Once it has been explained to me, I will make any adjustment (if necessary) to my spreadsheet. I'm quite OCD and "need" my spreadsheet to be a true reflection of the billing process.
Can everyone check their next statement to see how the membership fee appears on thetheir bill.

​Cheers

- - - Updated - - -

Hi Strutt G,

I have read those previous posts....and that is not my point at all. I understand the details regarding the membership fee including the reduction in Feb. My spreadsheet calculations for Feb were "spot on" so I would have expected my calculations for March to be equally accurate. I'm also fully aware that our billing period is dependant on our individual joining date. My point was that the membership fee charged was £8.11 and not the £8.00 that I was expecting.....However if the monthly membership fee is calculated by £8.00 x 12 for the annual charge and then divided by 365 (for a daily charge) and multiplied by the number of days for the relevant month/period.....then it would not work out to be £8.11 for my March bill.
​Thanks for your assiassistance tho' really appappreciated.
Userlevel 7
Badge +9
woz;
I've already explained how I think the membership fee is calculated in my previous post, the issue as far as I can see is that it isn't actually charged [U:

monthly because that would lead to an anomaly in the daily rate since each month is a different number of days.
That would obviously lead to a discrepancy in the rate, so for example
Feb would be 27.211p + vat per day (not in a leap year) but January would be 24.5776p + vat, this is clearly not acceptable, so to get round this each month is assumed to be 365/12 days = 30.417 days (or maybe 365.25/12=30.4375? who knows?) A day is then approx either 25.049p+ vat (or 25.031p+ vat)
Then if the month is 30 days I assume approx 0.4 of a day is subtracted, or if 31 days 0.6 added etc.
This method then allows a split charge as single days can be used for adjustment in the case of price changes,or a customer leaving etc.
In reality it would make very little difference if the single days were calculated at the rate of £96 divided by 365 or 365.25 per day for adjustment.

Simply put this is caused because the membership fee is quoted monthly, but applied daily.



Hi Woz

My welcome pack told me my membership fee was £8.50 a month (£102/year, accrued daily).

So now it's £8 a month, presumably £96/year, but still accrued daily.

I think this confirms what you are saying...
Stephen
Userlevel 7
Badge +10
Thanks..
I scratched my head for a long time over this, alopecia is the result...
stephenrand;26862:
Hi Woz

My welcome pack told me my membership fee was £8.50 a month (£102/year, accrued daily).

So now it's £8 a month, presumably £96/year, but still accrued daily.

I think this confirms what you are saying...
Stephen
Userlevel 7
Badge +10
I wonder if it depends where in the month your billing cycle falls.
I also wonder if it was caused by applying the month length adjustment twice.
The more transparent and better way to do this would be to quote an "average" monthly fee and just charge per day, but it's difficult to sell that one ...
Duppy;26850:
I have received a reply on Wattbot about the incorrect membership fee, apparently there is a glitch which is causing 3 extra days to be added, the billing team is working on it to find out what has happened and any extra charge refunded or credited.
Hi Woz and Hi Marc,
Wow Woz.... I think I can confirm that you are definitely OCD...LOL
I can really see that you've put in a load of time and effort into your spreadsheet ⌛️
I also use the calorific conversation that is shown on the statement/bill to predict and back check the gas calculations. So my prediction is usually very close indeed.
The facts in this case are irrefutable (in my opinion) and that is that the figure charged for the membership fee does not comply with any method of working out....(either a straight £8.00 per month or when calculated as a daily rate) If it was one or the other then I would have my explanation. However it doesn't....so therefore it's simply a mistake that requires investigation and explanation.
Hi @Gray4276
Just to let you know that our Member services team are still looking into this issue for you.🆙
As soon as I've got more info I will of course post back here!
Userlevel 7
Badge +10
Gray I agree and just to clarify I wasn't arguing that you were wrong about the charges being incorrect, there was an unintended conflation of posts.
Gray4276;26893:
Hi Woz and Hi Marc,
Wow Woz.... I think I can confirm that you are definitely OCD...LOL
I can really see that you've put in a load of time and effort into your spreadsheet ⌛️
I also use the calorific conversation that is shown on the statement/bill to predict and back check the gas calculations. So my prediction is usually very close indeed.
The facts in this case are irrefutable (in my opinion) and that is that the figure charged for the membership fee does not comply with any method of working out....(either a straight £8.00 per month or when calculated as a daily rate) If it was one or the other then I would have my explanation. However it doesn't....so therefore it's simply a mistake that requires investigation and explanation.
Hi Woz......no problem m8.... it's nice to find someone else with the same mindset as me 📝 📈 📊 ✔️
Userlevel 7
Badge +9
I also use the calorific conversation that is shown on the statement/bill to predict and back check the gas calculations. So my prediction is usually very close indeed.

Yes Gray4276, when you put this calc etc into a spread sheet and you understand your usage, that the Mfee is charged monthly and the dual discount is returned daily then forecasting is close to accurate. The calorific calc has to be amended when the bill arrives and has only a minor affect. Ah but then I guess all those linked formulas subject to that mid month statement amendments causes more work..
​My calc warts en all.

av pd
Units x
Correction Factor x
Calorific Value x
Metric Conversion x
Conversion Factor /
Tariff wth VAT

av pd


1.55
48.00
1.02264
39.10
2.83
3.6
3.3910

31.43282887




49.08672
1919.290752
5431.592828
1508.8
5116.26
£ 51.16




48 x 2.83 x 1.02264 x 39.1 ÷ 3.6 = 1508.8

KW




Userlevel 7
Badge +10
It started as as simple spreadsheet, and just like Topsy it grow'd and grow'd..and grow'd...work in progress I think I might start again..
Userlevel 7
Badge +5
woz;26992:
It started as as simple spreadsheet, and just like Topsy it grow'd and grow'd..and grow'd...work in progress I think I might start again..
1930


Blimey woz thats a lot of work. I just read the bill....

Reply