Question

Using different rate rapid chargers with any car?

  • 2 August 2020
  • 9 replies
  • 143 views

Hi there,

 

Silly question probably, but not something that has been clearly spelled out in all the trawling of sites and videos I’ve done in preparation for our EV delivery which is happening soon.

We’re getting a newly car which has a type 2/ CCS plug, that says via CCS can charge at up to 100kW.

 

So, am I right to assume that I can use a CCS compatible public rapid charger that is higher than that (150, 250, whatever) and the car/chargepoint will regulate the charge to a max of 100kW?

I’ve seen something that eluded to this with home 7kW chargers and cars that can only take 3kW, but wanted to know about the rapid chargers as well.

Thanks,
Doug


9 replies

I don’t know for sure @DougO as I haven’t researched this whole EV charging topic, but generally devices control their own charging rate up to the maximum allowed by the connection.

So your car will limit charging to 100kW on a higher power connection — the connection will limit charging on a lower power connection.

Basically cars won’t blow themselves up. It’d be bad for business. 😉

Maybe someone with specific EV car experience will confirm my deduction from electric first principles?

 

PS the same applies to phones — most are capable of fast charging. iPhones for example are sold with only 5W chargers, yet can fast charge to 50% in 30 minutes with a more powerful (20W) charger.

PPS Some cheap unbranded phone charging cables are limited to only 3W, so always charge your phone slowly. It’ll be the same with your car — it’ll always charge at the speed of the slowest link in the chain.

PPPS I’ll stop rambling now! 🤓

I don’t know for sure @DougO as I haven’t researched this whole EV charging topic, but generally devices control their own charging rate up to the maximum allowed by the connection.

So your car will limit charging to 100kW on a higher power connection — the connection will limit charging on a lower power connection.

Basically cars won’t blow themselves up. It’d be bad for business. 😉

Maybe someone with specific EV car experience will confirm my deduction from electric first principles?

 

PS the same applies to phones — most are capable of fast charging. iPhones for example are sold with only 5W chargers, yet can fast charge to 50% in 30 minutes with a more powerful charger.



Hi 25 quid,

 

yeah that’s what I assumed (because of the blowing up thing obviously! ;) )but I also am wondering about the battery life, as I’ve seen it said that *only* using rapid charging is a bad idea medium-long term, but it was bizarre to me that it is never spelled out clearly. Having dug into the plugs more one of the connectors is for the control of it.
Thanks.

So, am I right to assume that I can use a CCS compatible public rapid charger that is higher than that (150, 250, whatever) and the car/chargepoint will regulate the charge to a max of 100kW?

 

Yes - absolutely fine.

 

In terms of battery degrading - what is your expected time period that you keep the car? If less than 7-8 years, then don't worry about it as virtually all manufacturers have that number of years warranty on the battery and electric drive train components.

 

Usually it is something like they guarantee 70 or 80% battery capacity within the 8 year warranty period


Hi 25 quid,

yeah that’s what I assumed (because of the blowing up thing obviously! 😉 )but I also am wondering about the battery life, as I’ve seen it said that *only* using rapid charging is a bad idea medium-long term, but it was bizarre to me that it is never spelled out clearly. Having dug into the plugs more one of the connectors is for the control of it.
Thanks.

Absolutely! Fast charging, especially when nearly full, reduces the long term life of any battery. Your car will try to manage this for you. You can extend life by charging slowly and not bothering filling completely, if appropriate for your usage. Don’t leave you battery full for extended periods, especially if it’s hot.

Back to the iPhone example, they now have optimised charging to extend the life of the battery. Generally to avoid reduction in capacity over time, keep the battery neither full nor empty. 80% is a good safe spot. (avoid fully charged phones on the table in a sunny pub beer garden. Remember beer gardens??) #chemistry

Yes - absolutely fine.

Usually it is something like they guarantee 70 or 80% battery capacity within the 8 year warranty period

Good point @Ohit. My replies are geared towards further helping preserve battery capacity — if you have the inclination.

Userlevel 7
Badge +10

In theory the manufacturer will determine the maximum rate of charge and it depends on how good the thermal management of the particular vehicle battery pack is (if there is any thermal management). If the plug fitted but it was going to damage the battery the manufacturer would be duty bound to warn you not to do it. 

However…

Early 40kW Leafs allegedly had a problem in this regard hence https://www.electrive.com/2018/04/08/leaf-drivers-complain-of-rapidgate/

Hopefully Nissan have fixed it now!

 

Indeed it’s a balance for manufacturers to judge. 

Fast charge

=  desirable checklist item

Shortened battery life

=  possible collateral damage

Userlevel 7
Badge +8

 

Back to the iPhone example, they now have optimised charging to extend the life of the battery. Generally to avoid reduction in capacity over time, keep the battery neither full nor empty. 80% is a good safe spot. (avoid fully charged phones on the table in a sunny pub beer garden. Remember beer gardens??) #chemistry

Yeah the iphone Optimised Battery Charging is grand, and the Maximum Capacity shows the percentage of battery capacity compared to when it was brand new out the box🔋 (100%). Mines 98% after 11 months so think that’s good 👍. 

So, I tend to charge when it’s down to 1% or sometimes it dies totally when out. It reaches 80% and says sufficiently charged, but if I’m not rushing out, I do tend to leave it til fully reached 100%. Maybe I should unplug at 80% then, now and then perhaps? 

Looking good there @Bev. If you have the choice, avoid letting it go empty. Nickel batteries (like in your house cordless phone maybe) had/have the famous memory effects, so benefited from periodic emptying.
 

Lithium ones don’t have a memory effect, so there’s no need to empty them, in fact they’re happier not empty (and not full). The fuel gauge can benefit from a full empty to a full charge occasionally, if you become suspicious of odd readings...

Maybe that’s enough battering of this topic?
happy charging! 🚀

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