How can Pure Planet encourage adoption of electric vehicles and support our Members who already own EVs?


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Hi everyone

We’re keen to support our Members who drive electric vehicles (or are planning to get one) and it would be great to get some of your feedback here in the community.

Obviously we tick the most important box for electric vehicles - we’re a clean, renewable energy supplier.:o

Beyond that, some EV owners have asked whether we’ll be introducing a special tariff for Members who want to charge their electric vehicles at home.

We’re not convinced that an EV tariff is the best option. Or, at least, not what we should focus on first.

Citizens Advice has carried out research into the various EV tariffs in the market and found that they’re not necessarily the best option for those who want to charge their cars at home.

The reason is that while the middle of the night rates may look good, you could end up paying higher rates at other times of day.

So in other words, a night tariff for EVs in fine if you’re never at home during the day and only really use your house to charge your EV (!). But it’s not so good if you happen to use your house for living in, too.

We’ve looked into how Pure Planet currently compares with the EV tariffs out in the market.

We used the same usage figures as Citizens Advice used when they carried out their research - an annual average usage of 3100 kWh of electricity in the daytime, and 1500 kWh of at night. Here’s how we compare right now:




We’re going to put a page on our website showing the same info. We’re also planning to add a comparison calculator so EV owners can enter the model of their car, their annual mileage, and get a figure of how much it will cost with PP compared to other suppliers.

So we think there might be something else we could do to support our Members with EVs, and also help persuade more EV owners to switch to us.

That’s why I’ve created this community poll to find out what our Members think. Do you think we should we have an EV tariff? What about offering home charger installations? (But won’t that discriminate against the millions of drivers who don’t have a driveway at home?)
So perhaps we should be giving our Members free or discounted access to public charging points?
Is it all of the above? If so, in what order?
Perhaps there’s something we haven’t thought of?

Let us know what you think - vote in the poll, tells us your thoughts in the replies. Looping in some community Members who've previously taken part in EV discussions here @MikeZ; @VijayB; @Sallyent; @Lenny; @Oakbank; @Brunel; @Eastbath; @Knight; @Jon1; @Royborsberry; @Markgoodwin901; @ekranoplan; @Stealth; @Jenta; @linesrg; @Jenam93; @G4RHL; @UncleScooby; @Jowl :foldedhands:

Update 3 March 2020

Exciting news! We've launched an EV pilot and we're looking for EV drivers to help be a part it.
Check it out here.

How can Pure Planet encourage adoption of electric vehicles and support our Members who own EVs?


120 replies

Good to hear. Thank you for clarifying. I have read the policy and have amended my post to remove anything that could be intercepted as offensive or perhaps inaccurate. I did originally mention BP as a major not a majority stakeholder.

Please go ahead and delete any posts that you think may be unhelpful to the discussion and the intended spirit of the discussion.

You have answered my main and original concern which was that Pure Planet were trying to steer the discussion away from an EV friendly tariff from the outset. Inferring it would most likely mean increased on peak costs for other customers.

I am pleased to hear that Pure Planet are not against an EV friendly tariff and will most likely introduce one. This is great to hear from the horses mouth so to speak.

Otherwise the service from PP has been excellent.

I am happy to leave the discussion also. Probably best.
Userlevel 7
Badge +9
Hmmmm a very emotive topic this is. Should an EV tariff be introduced for me the answer is a simple NO. Why well PP was founded with the principle of ONE simple tariff, this was a big attraction along with the green factor,
Can PP do more to encourage people to be greener YES i believe they can on several fronts some ideas include.

1. PP customers get discount on solar and wind generation install projects via companies like BPlightsource.
2. Better rates on EV public charging points and home install discounts with chargemaster etc etc.
3. Links to green and ethical shops that give say 5% cash back which can be put as a credit onto ones own pp acct.
Badge +2
Hello @Marc,

With regard to your questions:

Do you think we should we have an EV tariff?

When I think of PP, 4 things come to mind, 1. 100% renewable, 2. Simple tariff structure, units sold at cost, 3. App-based company, 4. No call/email centre.
Whilst many suppliers offer 1, I think 2,3&4 are (currently) unique to PP. I would suggest that sticking to your single variable tariff helps you with a simple message to consumers, given that 2,3&4 are a bit different for people to cope with. Your bar chart would suggest you are already competitive as things stand?


What about offering home charger installations?

So perhaps we should be giving our Members free or discounted access to public charging points?

I would love to own an EV now, but I need to wait until they can compete financially with I/C cars. I think PP consumers without EVs should not cross-subsidise EV owners, and it sound as if both these options would cost PP money, which would have to be passed to all consumers?
It's worth looking a what other suppliers are doing in this area at the moment.. Octopus have gained a reasonable number of new EV owning customers by offering a low price (5p) per unit for four hours per night, plus a discounted or free (if you've not use the government grant) for a smart charger allowing the charge to be timed to coincide. It would be great if Pure could look at something similar. The main thing that has deterred me from switching to this is the lack of competitiveness on gas pricing. Alternatively, perhaps offer plunge pricing with a means of alerting customers that 'right now is a great time to charge'.

The majority of our charging is done at home so a low price window each night would be attractive and would, perhaps also allow us to run other household appliances at the same time, reducing our consumption outside of these times. Even a normal Economy 7 tariff would be beneficial for us I suspect. We do almost all our home charging at night and probably use around 3,000 units at home charging the car per year.

Partnership with a charging network might be attractive to some customers, but I find I tend to use several different networks each month depending on where I'm driving.

Some comments above mention the lack of charging infrastructure, but this is rapidly changing. I recommend folk take a look at either www.plugshare.com or zap-map.com to see how many public chargers are now available.

If you want to be radical, how about offering discounted or even free Solar PV installations, plus a smart charger that allows best use of those to charge the EV and any excess exported counts towards your green generation / supply figures? Perhaps even offer EV leasing?
I think and overnight off peak tariff will become inevitable. Already some EV's have the ability to feed & support the house at peak times and then re-charge at night. I've seen papers suggesting fuel cells could do this on a micro-generation level too. As the battery is a large proportion of the cost of an EV you'd think we'd make best use of it especially whilst it's parked on the drive.

Peak demand is a huge challenge for the grid. As you'll know, at some times of the day there is a surplus and therefore as EV's take hold they can be part of the solution.

I love the member community model and the simplicity of a flat rate however I would have to consider others who offer cheaper off-peak prices. I already have PV which both reduces my demand by around 20% and generates a surplus during the day. So this dilutes the flat tariff benefit of Pure Planet a little.

I'm sceptical about the whole smart meter thing but I think smarter use of energy is inevitable.

all the best



​Jon
Bev;35478:
Close the thread and the poll then Wozeeta?


We've got community guidelines to make sure that we can have discussions without making accusations or attacking other members.
Members who don't play fair will be warned, and then banned if they don't stop.

I've thought about closing this thread too @Bev but I'd prefer not to. Because then other Members won't be able to take part and express their feedback on what they'd like to see from Pure Planet in terms of EVs, tariffs, charging, etc etc.
Interesting post.

We have 2 EVs and exclusively charge them at home. One of them requires a charge every working day, the other could most likely get away with a weekly charge.

Would a cheap EV tariff work for me ? Not really - even if the day rate changed the same, as we have someone in all day, then I suspect any gain from a cheap overnight rate would be eaten up by the additional costs during the day. Plus, as the 2nd EV is needed for a long daily commute, we would much prefer to start any charging as soon as we get in to be sure that the car is fully charged before we go to sleep. It would be an annoyance if something happened overnight and the car failed to charge etc.

Should you look at offering home chargers - not sure if you would want to deviate from what you do best, you would need to invest in creating a team of certified electricians or create a network of them, have to establish relationships with the various manufacturers etc. Maybe consider teaming up with one or two of the specialist firms like Phoenix Works to offer a referral service ? Most folks will use the OLEV grant for their charger so there is additional admin overhead there too.

Discount on Charging Networks - This one is interesting, free membership of Polar might be an option - I have shied away from charging away from home mainly because of the total mashup that is our charging network at the moment, too many suppliers, too many different ways of access, app, RFID etc.

I have tried to use Apps a few times, on multiple networks but have always come a cropper. A few times in Manchester, using the APP on the GMEV network, never initialised a charge, even when on the phone to the so called helpdesk - the solution - "Buy an RFID card for £20/year". Next was a charger in a car park - guess what - no signal. that one was well thought out - putting the charger in the worst place in a car park :)

I like what Instasvolt are doing, simple contactless payment, so maybe try to do a tie up with them rather than the others who seem to love complicating what needs to be a very simple activity.

Ideally though, I would rather you focus on what you do best for the lowest price you can do it. Anything EV related would be a nice to have but not as essential as 100% renewable and cheap prices.
Userlevel 7
Badge +1
If PAYG could we not pay using the app rather than debit/credit cards? That could enable members to get the preferential rate.
I'm not yet an EV owner, but I agree that the most perceived delay in uptake is the lack of charging points. Providing access to multiple networks of charging points, not just partnering with one, would ease that situation.
Personally, I just don't trust any EV not to run flat when sat stationary in snow traffic on the Sheffield ring road when it's dark, the lights, wipers, radio and heater are on and nobody moves for an hour or three ...
Not sure what anyone but the manufacturers can do to remedy they, though!

There's a good discussion, here. Thanks for starting it.

Tim
Oakbank;24032:
If PAYG could we not pay using the app rather than debit/credit cards?.


Nice 🆒

Hi @bobbin2u

To be clear. Pure Planet's mission is to see the UK powered by 100% renewable energy.
We are not anti EV tariff.
It's possible that we will introduce an EV tariff. This thread was posted here in our community because we'd like to know what experiences EV drivers have, what else we might offer.
This is a discussion thread. It's posted to hear what our Members think.
I've already pointed you in the direction of our community guidelines.
Please read our acceptable use policy too.
Userlevel 7
Badge +9
I'm a bit reluctant to enter into this discussion, given the current levels of passion!

I'll confess to not fully understanding exactly how electricity gets bought. But given the comments about PPs purchasing policy, it seems relevant to give their own explanation: "We've one great value, simple, variable tariff, so you're always on our best rate. You pay no more than we pay for the energy you use. It's a variable rate based on wholesale prices — which means it can go down as well as up. We don't make any profit on the energy you use."

Taken with this comment elsewhere on the web, Ofgem, I think,

"Wholesale energy prices account for 45% of the average electricity bill in the UK. The market price is influenced by a number of factors; the price of the input fuel used to produce electricity, as well as demand spikes and supply changes. Companies buy wholesale energy weeks, months and years in advance as well as on the day of use in order to smooth the purchase price over a long period to avoid price spikes."

does it seem possible that a company could buy nighttime electricity very cheaply in advance to create an EV tariff?

But it also seems relevant to quote Ofgem's own comments on preparing for the EV revolution:

"The number of EVs on UK roads has grown from fewer than 4000 in 2013 to around 160,000 as of June 2018. While growth is significant, EV numbers still represent a fraction of the UK’s 31.2 million cars. We must remain mindful that we are at the very beginning of a transition - much of the transformation (and uncertainty) is still ahead of us.
As with the steam engine and the motorcar, the EV transition may be linked to broader societal change.
Beyond electrification, shared vehicle access and autonomous technology could change the nature of how we own and engage with transport. We do not yet have certainty over what the future transport system will look like or how it will be used, just as we do not have certainty over what our future energy system will look like.

While continued and widespread deployment of EVs now seems inevitable, there is substantial uncertainty around the scale and pace of EV growth. Regardless of how the transition progresses, we consider two core principles should determine industry’s approach to facilitating the EV transition:
• Industry should focus on minimising overall system costs for all consumers (including non-EV users), by seeking to make more efficient use of our existing assets, before considering reinforcement. The development of new markets that provide flexibility will play a key role here, by incentivising or automating the shifting of load away from peak demand, even if total demand increases. This means that network companies should not expect to be remunerated for reinforcement alone when more cost-effective solutions exist.
• Early adopters of EVs serve to promote an industry that brings both energy system and decarbonisation benefits, and contribute to learning and cost reductions that will benefit later adopters. However, if EV users choose to charge during peak times, under current arrangements they will impose considerable costs which will be borne by all consumers. An enduring charging regime should ensure costs are distributed fairly, and EV users face charges that are reflective of the costs (or benefits) they are imposing on the system. Vulnerable consumers, or those who are currently unable to share in many of the benefits of EVs, are likely to object to subsidising more affluent early adopters of EVs."

My last comment is this: a PP member of staff has opened up this topic for comment and discussion. I would not expect him to answer every point being made; I would expect him to feed in all the comments to the policy makers in the company, and then feedback their considered view on behalf of PP to customers in due course.

Hope that helps!?
Stephen
Personally I don't see that you need to do anything.
in a long career with a major uk bank I saw many marketing initiatives that over complicated the business and ultimately added no value to the bank or customers.
​​​​​​​keep your proposition simple is my advice
Badge
Link up with all charge point electricity suppliers and create ONE app that supports all so we only need one app to access the network.
Probably about as likely as everlasting life but defo would be worth it!
Maybe if you got a two or three to agree there might be enough momentum that would “persuade” the other companies to join in.

Get local councils / government to give more of a carrot to evs.
Evs get let off ved and what else?
How about free parking for evs instead of wacking ice drivers all the time with congestion charges etc.

Lobby national gov to provide lower cost charging to attract more to ev use.
V jealous of free charging in Scotland!
Hey Everyone,

It's such a shame that this poll has been "hijacked" like this.
I have kept out of the discussions as I am not in a position to put forward a "reasoned" argument on this subject. However it hasn't stopped an input thread that is (in my opinion) so intransigent as to be almost "unbalanced" and totally destructive. We're all entitled to our own opinions regarding any subject...... but OMG this has become a poisoned chalice of a discussion.
Hi @Marc....I will fully understand if you decide to delete my post, I will not be offended.
Personally for me it's all about simplicity.

PP's tariff structure works because it is simple and no matter the time of day, you always know what you are paying.
Same goes for EV's. Complicated economy 7 tariffs wouldn't work for me because I can't guarantee that I will need to charge the car at the same time every night. Life is to fluid for that. I often need to plug in in the day if I've come back from a friends and need to be somewhere later that evening. Flat rate works better.

When I had my Home Charger installed back in 2014, the government put a sub meter on my electric car charge feed that showed exactly what my car was drawing from the the grid. I've since moved house and not taken that with me but if memory serves me right, £220 (about 8000 miles) is what a years worth plugging in at home cost me separate to all other domesticated items. It was useful because I could prove how efficient the car was to other people so would highly recommend installing sub meters to peoples EV feed. Once you have this data, you could potentially offer annual discounts or cashback/credits based on the amount people use the car. Bit like a supermarket loyalty scheme or how BMW charge now offer points to have an i8 for a week. So for instance, for every 1000kwh hours used in a year, you get 1% free. i.e. 10kwh credited to your PP account. Just an idea.

I do agree though that the public charging infrastructure is a shambles and needs to be simplified so this is an area PP can work on. I like Polar's monthly subscription cost of a flat fee and gives you access to theirs and other networks as well as then offering a discounted unit rate of 9p/kw for rapid chargers. Simple and easy. Instavolts PAYG contactless payment is also the best I've seen, but at 35p/kw I definitely think some sort of discount or cashback award can be used as a further incentive for PP customers as others have mentioned.
Hi Marc, I know the question was to another user, but I also keep and eye on the Grid Carbon intensity using an app links for apple or android from gridcarbon.info.

On my iPhone, it produces an view like the one attached..


- - - Updated - - -

Marc;27015:
Hi @Sheps
I've had a look at the Octopus Go offer.
I'm a bit confused.
In one section they say that a smart meter is optional and that it's only available to the first 1,000 customers.
1931

And in another section it states that you have a SMETS1 meter and that they've stopped installing them.
1932


This is exactly the sort of confusion we don't want.
One of the things Pure Planet Members like about us is a our one, simple variable tariff.


I don't think this is confusing at all. It is very clear. I know a number of people with EVs who have switched to it and find it straightforward. One person who is a recent EV owner I know moved to Octopus Go and has since made a helpful YouTube video showing how much they're saving by charging their car during the 5p/kWh timeframe.

There is no confusion around smart meters either. They aren't saying you don't need one, its just from what I've heard from others wanting to switch, they've been so inundated with requests for smart meters, they've got a backlog. I think they too are moving to SMETS2, so there may be some delays. The 1,000 limit was for those who also could get a MyEnergi Zappi charger install as well.

I do really hope PP will think creatively about offering something similar to this, especially as according to the poll, an EV tariff is way in the lead. Octopus's overnight 5p/kWh rate is countered by a 14p/kWh day rate. Sensible use of home appliances, car charging etc. would make this a good option for EV owners on PP. As PP sell us power at the wholesale price, something similar should be possible?

There have been some good suggestions on here, but I'm not always clear if all of them have come from PP members who actually own EVs or just what they think they would like if they did own one.
I'd say get involved in providing more public charging points. I believe it is the relative lack of infrastructure (along with smallish ranges) that is the biggest barrier to the uptake of EVs. The next thing is more research to speed up charging times.
As a recent adopter of a fully electric vehicle, I've been appalled at how disjointed government policy and action are with regard to encouraging EV adoption.

For example, while we are offered various grants to purchase (vehicle, home charger installation) and run (road tax, fuel duty) EVs, the charging infrastructure is a mess of many separate networks each with their own ways of access and so many non-working units, particularly at the all-important motorway service stations. Ecotricity and those who awarded them the contracts need to be called out for particular ineptitude. Where is the Department for Transport? Chris Grayling - the buck stops with you! (as with so many other national embarrassments!).

So, Pure Planet, please step in and take over the Ecotricity motorway service station contracts with a determination to install more, reliable rapid charging units, Your credentials for fully renewable energy and with BP backing puts you in an excellent position. Pricing per kWh is not a limiting factor for most current EV drivers (especially compared with fossil fuelled vehicles), and could be reduced over time with greater EV adoption and economies of scale....(at least until petrol/diesel tax revenues diminish significantly!)
I had a few more thoughts on how a Vehicle to Grid (V2G) and overnight charging tariff might work for me;

I have been thinking that I will probably jump on to the EV carrousel when the availability of circa 60Kw vehicles become more available. There are options now but with long lead times. I do a number of circa 200 mileround trips but most is short around my home.

I have a 3.2Kw PV system which put me in surplus most days between say 11am and 3pm to make it easy. I’m consuming around 18Kw/h a day so let’s round that to 20Kw/h per day. So, in theory (ignoring losses as I’ve rounded up) I could run my house for a whole day and use 1/3rdof the stored energy in the car, which I’d never need to do I hope.

On a 6 to 7 Kw home charging circuit between say 12.30 and 4.30am I could add in charge at the low end 24Kwh to the car. Now, I probably wouldn’t want to keep the car at 100% charge for battery life and I want to store my solar surplus which even on a sunny day might be around 10Kwh. I would only be capturing this surplus whilst my car is at home during the day unless I spend money on a battery storage system.

But I also need to keep a reasonable range available for when the car is needed so I’d be looking to end the day with around 40/50% of the car battery capacity left. We would then deplete the car at peak power demands (again assuming the car is at home) leaving at least 20% before the charge overnight.

The big down-side is the car needs to be plugged in to the house for peak times which generally it would be anyway. I estimate this might push somewhere around 70% of our power usage to off peak.

Assuming a night time tariff of £0.05 that would save me nearly 50% of my current electricity cost (around £500 a year) but that excludes what we would use through the use of the car so the savings could be significant.

On a larger scale if adopted widely it would flatten the peaks and fill the troughs of the grid.

I think this is pretty compelling… when all the tech is available.
This is nonsense from Pure Planet. Pure planet are trying to deflect customers who own or who are ordering EVs away from energy suppliers better suited to them. They are using missleading comments and statements because they are not equipped or are unwilling to provide an EV tariff.

Octopus, for example (there are others) have a day (or peak) tariff of only 0.59p per unit more than PP but 8.13p per unit LESS overnight when charging EVs or using a tumble dryer etc. How on earth can that not be much more cost effective than Pure Planet?! Also, Pure Planet like to quote ridiculous articles about future EV super fast charging capabilities and human behaviour. Saying things like EV drivers won't want to charge overnight! Again, missleading and ridiculous. Who would pay a high rate for superfast charging when actually being able to charge your car at home, overnight is a fraction of the cost and it's going to be sat there anyway?!
Look at what Pure Planet are actually saying in their own words to their own customer community...


We've one great value, simple, variable tariff, so you're always on our best rate. You pay no more than we pay for the energy you use.


If this is true and someone charges their car overnight (as Ofgem suggests and is widely accepted as best practice) then Pure planet is either overpaying or overcharging for electricity used at night. They are also actively encouraging EV owners to charge at the wrong time of day, which will have a negative effect for ALL customers.

We’ve seen other energy suppliers offer a special tariff for EV drivers. We’re not convinced that they’re the best, or fairest, options. The reason is that while the middle of the night rates may look good, you could end up paying higher rates at other times of day. So in other words, a night tariff for EVs in fine if you’re never at home during the day and only really use your house to charge your EV (!). But it’s not so good if you happen to use your house for living in, too.


I mean it could not be clearer from Pure Planet. How is this message helpful in any way to aid customer understanding as to what the best options are? Pure Planet is strongly suggesting they are against offering an EV friendly tariff.

Furthermore, they are promoting this by citing 3rd party research and news articles suggesting that sticking with a flat rate is good for all customers because it's what EV owners would prefer and technology improvements in fast charging will mean EV drivers will want to charge during peak times. This is widely accepted as being bad practice.

I know many of you probably think I am being negative, but I am just frustrated at Pure Planet in this respect because I think it is fairly hypocritical, unsustainable, misleading and already outdated.
DWC;35619:
I think if you were able to partner with a charging network with good reach, that shares your same renewable energy values so that we could benefit from a discounted charging tariff like Ecotricity does, that would be nice. Don't worry I'm not going anywhere but I'm trying to reduce the number of apps and services I need to sign up to in order to keep this car on the road. I'm already on two - Tesla and BP Chargemaster - and I haven't even got the car!


It would make sense for Pure Planet to partner with BP Chrgemaster. BP are a major stakeholder in Pure Planet and already procure all the gas and electricity for Pure Planet, so a partnership here would make sense.

Problem is regular high-speed charging from BP Chargemaster's 150KW chargers and Tesla's V2 and V3 Superchargers is not good for the battery in your Tesla. Plus you have to pay a lot more than the cost of home charging for both options. Not the end of the world if you need a quick top up and still MUCH cheaper than Petrol/Diesel.

If you are a member of BP Chargemaster the rate drops from 40p/kWh (daylight robbery) to 20p/kWh, but it's still quite expensive. Perhaps Pure Planet's symbiosis with BP could result in cheaper rate (<20p/kWh) on the BP Chargemaster network. To access the current 'cheaper' 20p/kWh rate you need to pay a membership to BP, perhaps that could be free with a Pure Planet tariff?

Although charging with fast charges can be convenient when you need it, it isn't good for your car battery/pocket/the grid/other electricity customers/the planet. It is generally inconvenient for you too because your Tesla will do over 200 miles on a charge and you could be waking up every day to a full battery.

I know it's not relevant to you but BP Chargemaster also provide home charging installations however, they are VERY expensive compared with most other options. The prices look good because they will re-claim your £500 OLEV grant and already deduct that from their advertised cost. However, most reputable installers can claim the £500 government grant for those who have off-street parking. Perhaps if Pure Planet partnered here also, the cost of a home installation of a BP Chargemaster Homecharge unit could perhaps be brought into a reasonable price bracket for Pure Planet customers.

This doesn't help you with your home charging option though. This is the single biggest opportunity for Pure Planet as 40% of EV owners are projected not to have access to off-street parking (60% do though). If Pure Planet could come up with a solution here they would be able to access 100% of EV owners charging requirements. There are numerious ways they could tackle this, and they should be offerring a home charging solution and tariff to all their customers.

If I were you I would figure out a safe way to get a cable to your car while it's parked on the street. I see this a lot where I live. Someone would be hard pressed to sue you if it wasn't a hazzard and your local government will be reluctant to take legal action against you. I bet it's hard to guarantee you can park exactly outside your house everyday though eh?
Jon Godfrey;27829:
I think and overnight off peak tariff will become inevitable. Already some EV's have the ability to feed & support the house at peak times and then re-charge at night. I've seen papers suggesting fuel cells could do this on a micro-generation level too. As the battery is a large proportion of the cost of an EV you'd think we'd make best use of it especially whilst it's parked on the drive.

Peak demand is a huge challenge for the grid. As you'll know, at some times of the day there is a surplus and therefore as EV's take hold they can be part of the solution.

I love the member community model and the simplicity of a flat rate however I would have to consider others who offer cheaper off-peak prices. I already have PV which both reduces my demand by around 20% and generates a surplus during the day. So this dilutes the flat tariff benefit of Pure Planet a little.

I'm sceptical about the whole smart meter thing but I think smarter use of energy is inevitable.

all the best

​Jon


Great input @Jon Godfrey :raisinghands:
Hey @Jon Godfrey
Complicated, isn't it?! 😂
Even early adopters who are happy to "do the math" aren't convinced. By the time this becomes mass market it needs to much simpler, as well as transparent.

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