How can Pure Planet encourage adoption of electric vehicles and support our Members who already own EVs?



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Not quite sure what you meant by the statement quoted below?
Notwithstanding the restriction applied by Tesla to limit battery degradation due to "excessive use of fast charging, which you can read about HERE, are you suggesting that all EV owners should charge in the middle of the night?
If commercial EV charging networks want to encourage that sort of behaviour they would have to to offer timed price incentives. Maybe they will...but I can't see many EV owners taking up the offer.
The major point here, that a proportion (hopefully an increasing one) of the energy used to charge has come/is coming from renewables (at any time) and that has to be better than running an I.C. engine. That argument doesn't seem to be catered for in your statement.
It's a lot better for the planet than the stuff that comes out of my exhaust pipe.

Waking up to a full battery? A banana (if they haven't all died from the latest banana disease) and a couple of weetabix will do that.
bobbin2u;35717:


Although charging with fast charges can be convenient when you need it, it isn't good for your car battery/pocket/the grid/other electricity customers/the planet. It is generally inconvenient for you too because your Tesla will do over 200 miles on a charge and you could be waking up every day to a full battery.

Although charging with fast charges can be convenient when you need it, it isn't good for your...

car battery - because fast/high KW charging (over 100KW)degrades the car battery faster than say 30KW
pocket - Tesla Superchargers and ESPECIALLY BP Chargemaster fast chargers are WAY more expensive than home charging. Plus, charging in the daytime and/or peak times (think rush-hour traffic) is going to be more expensive.
the grid - Grid balancing, you know all about that already
other electricity customers - need electricity at the same time for other reasons and if everyone used fast chargers at peak times (even during quieter times in the day) everyone's electricity bills will rise
the planet - because fewer power stations are required to meet the peak daytime demand (including for EV charging)
waking up every day to a full battery - will mean most customers in most circumstances will never (or rarely) need to use fast charging during the day

Using daytime superfast charging isn't 'a bad thing', it's just not considered best practice and these are some of the reasons.

I dont understand your comment about Internal Combustion Engine cars. Are you suggesting they are bad for the environment?
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Apologies Updated- didn't realise it had been phased out - I should have checked first. I just I read it's £0.24p/kWh on tier 1 (the lower rate of charge)
forgot to add
​Plus idle fees £0.35/min if you leave it hogging the charger for more than 5 mins after charge complete - if the station is more than 50% occupied (£0.70 if 100% occupied)
woz;35638:
If it's a Tesla don't you get free rapid charging?
Surely it makes sense for efficient grid loading for EV charging to be mostly during off-peak hours. Therefore this behaviour should be encouraged by introducing a cheaper rate, and the net effect on the consumer should be a reduced overall charge as a reward for helping to balance demand. I know that traditionally E7 day times are punitive to "balance" the cheaper overnight rates, however, it is not clear to me in principle why day time rates should be significantly higher for consumers that willingly switch some of their consumption to overnight.
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Cynical hat on

I pondered on that a long time ago and the only reason I could think of was energy companies are attempting to cover their backsides (profit wise), The breakpoint percentage (when compared with the single rate) varied hugely from comany to company, with some if you used more than 15% off peak you won, with others it was closer to 50%..
Absolutely nothing to do with demand and balance then...
PHB;38547:
Surely it makes sense for efficient grid loading for EV charging to be mostly during off-peak hours. Therefore this behaviour should be encouraged by introducing a cheaper rate, and the net effect on the consumer should be a reduced overall charge as a reward for helping to balance demand. I know that traditionally E7 day times are punitive to "balance" the cheaper overnight rates, however, it is not clear to me in principle why day time rates should be significantly higher for consumers that willingly switch some of their consumption to overnight.
Sorry for the slow reply... No, fuel cost savings are on top of this as I kind of take that as a given. Even if you charge and EV at premium rates they are still cheaper than oil. The fuel savings are huge I agree. I'd estimate on current PP tariffs I would save £150 a month on fuel alone.

I have just started upgrading my Solar Panels. I can't touch my existing system or I would lose my FiT but I have added more to my garage roof to increase the surplus which I plan to put in to hot water and the car when I get it. I've done this very much on the cheap as a bit of a project. By doing this DiY I can get another 3.8Kw for less than £2k. The payback only works if I can store this which is where the car comes in. It still won't be enough for all car use but I estimate about 30% of it between April and September. Maybe about 6 years.

I still think Grid Balancing and Grid Back Up for the House from EV's will come... it just makes such sense... not needs for huge grid based batteries when there will be a million "little" ones.
Jon Godfrey;38934:


I have just started upgrading my Solar Panels. I can't touch my existing system or I would lose my FiT but I have added more to my garage roof to increase the surplus which I plan to put in to hot water and the car when I get it. I've done this very much on the cheap as a bit of a project. By doing this DiY I can get another 3.8Kw for less than £2k. The payback only works if I can store this which is where the car comes in. It still won't be enough for all car use but I estimate about 30% of it between April and September. Maybe about 6 years.



Lucky you to have FIT @Jon Godfrey
Have you got payments for the next 20 years? 😮
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I am eager to start looking into purchasing an electric car but not until cobalt and coltan are no longer conflict minerals. I'm afraid to say that unless a car manufacturer can assure me that their car is conflict and child slave labour free, I won't be investing in one. This is the reason I won't buy brand new phones or other hand held devices.

Sorry to be a blight. yes in one sense electric cars are muh better for the environment but we have to ask ourselves if it is better for 'everyones' environment.

There are lots of good articles about it around but here is one to take a look at. I will take no offense if anyoen wishes to throw rotten veg at me.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2018/09/26/blood-batteries-cobalt-and-the-congo/#57b25388cc6e
NannyOgg;39973:
I am eager to start looking into purchasing an electric car but not until cobalt and coltan are no longer conflict minerals. I'm afraid to say that unless a car manufacturer can assure me that their car is conflict and child slave labour free, I won't be investing in one. This is the reason I won't buy brand new phones or other hand held devices.

Sorry to be a blight. yes in one sense electric cars are muh better for the environment but we have to ask ourselves if it is better for 'everyones' environment.

There are lots of good articles about it around but here is one to take a look at. I will take no offense if anyoen wishes to throw rotten veg at me.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2018/09/26/blood-batteries-cobalt-and-the-congo/#57b25388cc6e


Very interesting points made here @NannyOgg 🆙
Thanks for sharing this. Do you feel that it's going against the tide?
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Marc;40123:
Do you feel that it's going against the tide?


I feel that it is missing a point. Yes, much, much better for the planet in terms of carbon emmissions and allowing much cleaner air. However, I don't think that it should be at the cost of a childhod. It is all well and good certain high profile and public figures lecturing us about how we should be improving the planet (which I totally agree with by the way), but then they are lording it around with all the high tech gear and fancy pants kit which will have more than likely been produced in circumstances that doesn't bear thinking about.

I believe that Tesla and Ford are one of the most ethical. You can check it out on ethical consumer. I did put a link somewhere btu can't remember where.

Sorry, rant over, lol!!
Personally I don't see that you need to do anything.
in a long career with a major uk bank I saw many marketing initiatives that over complicated the business and ultimately added no value to the bank or customers.
​​​​​​​keep your proposition simple is my advice
LurgidBanana;42502:
Personally I don't see that you need to do anything.
in a long career with a major uk bank I saw many marketing initiatives that over complicated the business and ultimately added no value to the bank or customers.
​​​​​​​keep your proposition simple is my advice


Thanks @LurgidBanana
That's what some other Members say too.
Seems that others disagree though, and would like to see some kind of deal/incentive/offer for EVs.

Are you an EV driver? (Not that it really matters, just curious).
I'm not currently an EV driver but have solar panels so thinking of EV as a way to use surplus power generation.
but, I assume any changes to PP tariffs to benefit EV drivers would be a zero sum game with corresponding increases to other tariffs - so overall there is no benefit to customers
why sould PP ecourage the adoption of EVs and further support the ownership ?

An individual member may not need an EV - could be happy using bycycle, public transport or using a family vehicle,reduce traveling etc. PP should (in my mind) encourage the use clean electricity in a economical ,sustained way. It is a limited resource which is difficult (costly) to store and PP (as a commercial organisation) have the ability to balance its usage with its production.

EV as large user and charging should be ecouraged to balance electic usage by commercial factors. Friends of mine with EVs charge them usually at 5-10pm during peak usage - unless its cheaper to charge during day or at night.

​​​​​​​I believe PP should introduce 'time of day metering' to ecourage the efficient use of all electricity.
My simple view is that in a few years time the amount of renewable energy on the grid, at night, when demand is lowest will nicely align with E7 type tariffs. Issue today is that E7 type suppliers are profiteering !

With the adoption of smart meters (not the v2 being installed now) but meters which communicate with appliances, including EVs, then the system will be configurable to charge when costs are low - whatever the time of day. PP needs to be able to work with half hourly metering and pass through wholesale cost opportunities.

Exact same principle will apply to heat pumps as gas and oil boilers are replaced - Net Zero will drive this.
Iainy;45935:

With the adoption of smart meters (not the v2 being installed now) but meters which communicate with appliances, including EVs, then the system will be configurable to charge when costs are low - whatever the time of day. PP needs to be able to work with half hourly metering and pass through wholesale cost opportunities.



Hi @Iainy
Welcome to the community!
Great post.👍
Yep, that's exactly where we're heading. It's a complex process of steps to get us there, but we will.
With the number of EVs forecast to hit the roads over the next decade I personally won't bet on night-time necessarily being low demand for much longer!
Look out for some EV news from PP soon.
Hi Guys,

I've been with PP for a couple of years now and have been very satisfied with the service. I'm about to buy an Electric Vehicle and I have a 5.1 kWp solar panel system, so should be able to partially charge my car when it's sunny. It would be ideal to also have some cheaper electricity at trough rates in the middle of the night to ensure the EV is sufficiently charged when the weather is not so kind.

I have read the Citizens Advice review and found it interesting. However, it is now out of date. I notice in the PP comparison you have not included some newer deals to compare against. A notable omission is the Octopus Go EV tariff, which offers a very attractive 5p per kWh rate between 00.30 and 04.30. Their daytime rate is very similar to the standard PP tariff and is all renewably sourced. Their carbon offset gas tariffs are similar to PP. This looks very attractive to EV users and Octopus are also a Which magazine Best Buy.

My conclusion is that, unless PP make more effort to attract EV users, they will lose some of their market to competitors like Octopus (probably including me)

Best wishes, Ian.
Surpo;47645:
Hi Guys,

I've been with PP for a couple of years now and have been very satisfied with the service. I'm about to buy an Electric Vehicle and I have a 5.1 kWp solar panel system, so should be able to partially charge my car when it's sunny. It would be ideal to also have some cheaper electricity at trough rates in the middle of the night to ensure the EV is sufficiently charged when the weather is not so kind.

I have read the Citizens Advice review and found it interesting. However, it is now out of date. I notice in the PP comparison you have not included some newer deals to compare against. A notable omission is the Octopus Go EV tariff, which offers a very attractive 5p per kWh rate between 00.30 and 04.30. Their daytime rate is very similar to the standard PP tariff and is all renewably sourced. Their carbon offset gas tariffs are similar to PP. This looks very attractive to EV users and Octopus are also a Which magazine Best Buy.

My conclusion is that, unless PP make more effort to attract EV users, they will lose some of their market to competitors like Octopus (probably including me)

Best wishes, Ian.


Hi @Surpo
Welcome to the community. Nice post. 👍
And, yes, this thread was posted in 2019 and it's been a great discussion, and we'll soon have some more news.
Just the other day I posted about my thoughts on driving the Leaf for a year, which hints at what we're looking at.
We've just bought a Leaf and I've a BMW 330e on order - so work with others to help build a worthwhile charging network - it is the future and where we need the investment most.

Those of us lucky enough to have off street parking where we can charge at home can help you keep it simple by letting you carry on with a single model for the whole community and partnering with others.

Not that I'd say no to to getting a charger or a special cheap rate but once you get into this space it'll consume time and energy and is likely to be a distraction from your mission and I don't want to see you go to the wall like a number of the other providers who've sort to distrupt the market only to fail when they scale - because no doubt their operating models couldn't scale - keep it simple and keep it good value.
Exciting news! We've launched an EV pilot and we're looking for EV drivers to help be a part it.
Check it out here.

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