How can Pure Planet encourage adoption of electric vehicles and support our Members who already own EVs?



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Eastbath;25372:
’ve just had a look at zap map for Scotland and if you select a rapid charger point then have a look at the comments associated, you can see that some that were previously free are now starting to charge.
The guy who sold me my car intimated that there were lots of free public chargers about. Sadly I’ve not come across any in my neck of the woods.


Doesn't surprise me @Eastbath

And any bets on how long it'll be until the road tax exemption goes? :rolleyes:
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I read recently that the government takes £28billion in road tax annually. They/we can’t afford for that to disappear so there will have to be either a tax on all vehicles regardless of fuel type or a per mile charge. When? Few years yet
Eastbath;26375:
I read recently that the government takes £28billion in road tax annually. They/we can’t afford for that to disappear so there will have to be either a tax on all vehicles regardless of fuel type or a per mile charge. When? Few years yet


What about a tax on the most popular roads @Eastbath
And at the busiest times? I believe that the new smart motorways being built will allow for this.
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I never understood the road tax system from the consumers point of view, an arbitrary amount of money you have to pay each year regardless.

Why not just put the tax on the fuel?

The more you drive, the more you pay.
The more inefficient the car, the more you pay.
That way you can choose whether to drive or not as each journey has a cost whereas currently some people have the attitude "Well I paid road tax already, might as well drive...."

Of course from the Governments perspective, they want to know the kind of (roughly) guaranteed income that road tax gives them.

If the majority of cars ever gets to electric/hybrid, they will find other ways to tax regardless, they always do (And need to).

As Marc mentioned, smart motorways is one way.
Taxing based on your energy provider would be another, i.e. the more polluting your energy provider, in terms of how it generates the energy, the more tax applied.

Thinking about it, if the future is most cars being electric then that is when a flat rate of road tax per electric vehicle makes more sense.
Good points @Jenam93
Right now there's so few EVs out there the zero road tax incentive doesn't really make a dent in the Government's coffers.
Interesting idea about a lower tax for those who choose renewables. Makes sense to me!
Also I reckon insurance companies might have a part to play. I've not really worked it out in my head yet, but as local councils are given higher clean air targets, they might start looking at legal action against high polluting drivers = higher premiums = more demand for EVs.
See what I'm getting at?
Hi Marc, Octopus have launched "Octopus Go" giving a night rate of 5p for EV owners. No idea what the day rate is (their site is not very transparent!) It has to have a SMETS 2 meter installed. As an EV owner it sounds very attractive but I will be staying with PP for a while. Any plans for something similar?
Sheps;26923:
Hi Marc, Octopus have launched "Octopus Go" giving a night rate of 5p for EV owners. No idea what the day rate is (their site is not very transparent!) It has to have a SMETS 2 meter installed. As an EV owner it sounds very attractive but I will be staying with PP for a while. Any plans for something similar?


Hi @Sheps
I've had a look at the Octopus Go offer.
I'm a bit confused.
In one section they say that a smart meter is optional and that it's only available to the first 1,000 customers.


And in another section it states that you have a SMETS1 meter and that they've stopped installing them.



This is exactly the sort of confusion we don't want.
One of the things Pure Planet Members like about us is a our one, simple variable tariff.
I think and overnight off peak tariff will become inevitable. Already some EV's have the ability to feed & support the house at peak times and then re-charge at night. I've seen papers suggesting fuel cells could do this on a micro-generation level too. As the battery is a large proportion of the cost of an EV you'd think we'd make best use of it especially whilst it's parked on the drive.

Peak demand is a huge challenge for the grid. As you'll know, at some times of the day there is a surplus and therefore as EV's take hold they can be part of the solution.

I love the member community model and the simplicity of a flat rate however I would have to consider others who offer cheaper off-peak prices. I already have PV which both reduces my demand by around 20% and generates a surplus during the day. So this dilutes the flat tariff benefit of Pure Planet a little.

I'm sceptical about the whole smart meter thing but I think smarter use of energy is inevitable.

all the best



​Jon
Jon Godfrey;27829:
I think and overnight off peak tariff will become inevitable. Already some EV's have the ability to feed & support the house at peak times and then re-charge at night. I've seen papers suggesting fuel cells could do this on a micro-generation level too. As the battery is a large proportion of the cost of an EV you'd think we'd make best use of it especially whilst it's parked on the drive.

Peak demand is a huge challenge for the grid. As you'll know, at some times of the day there is a surplus and therefore as EV's take hold they can be part of the solution.

I love the member community model and the simplicity of a flat rate however I would have to consider others who offer cheaper off-peak prices. I already have PV which both reduces my demand by around 20% and generates a surplus during the day. So this dilutes the flat tariff benefit of Pure Planet a little.

I'm sceptical about the whole smart meter thing but I think smarter use of energy is inevitable.

all the best

​Jon


Great input @Jon Godfrey :raisinghands:
I had a few more thoughts on how a Vehicle to Grid (V2G) and overnight charging tariff might work for me;

I have been thinking that I will probably jump on to the EV carrousel when the availability of circa 60Kw vehicles become more available. There are options now but with long lead times. I do a number of circa 200 mileround trips but most is short around my home.

I have a 3.2Kw PV system which put me in surplus most days between say 11am and 3pm to make it easy. I’m consuming around 18Kw/h a day so let’s round that to 20Kw/h per day. So, in theory (ignoring losses as I’ve rounded up) I could run my house for a whole day and use 1/3rdof the stored energy in the car, which I’d never need to do I hope.

On a 6 to 7 Kw home charging circuit between say 12.30 and 4.30am I could add in charge at the low end 24Kwh to the car. Now, I probably wouldn’t want to keep the car at 100% charge for battery life and I want to store my solar surplus which even on a sunny day might be around 10Kwh. I would only be capturing this surplus whilst my car is at home during the day unless I spend money on a battery storage system.

But I also need to keep a reasonable range available for when the car is needed so I’d be looking to end the day with around 40/50% of the car battery capacity left. We would then deplete the car at peak power demands (again assuming the car is at home) leaving at least 20% before the charge overnight.

The big down-side is the car needs to be plugged in to the house for peak times which generally it would be anyway. I estimate this might push somewhere around 70% of our power usage to off peak.

Assuming a night time tariff of £0.05 that would save me nearly 50% of my current electricity cost (around £500 a year) but that excludes what we would use through the use of the car so the savings could be significant.

On a larger scale if adopted widely it would flatten the peaks and fill the troughs of the grid.

I think this is pretty compelling… when all the tech is available.
I forgot from my calculations the standard day tariffs go UP with many of these "charge over night" deals. Sad I woke up this morning thinking my calculations are wrong!! :D

So, the saving is over stated. If the car wasn't available at peak times there would be a punitive energy rate. I'm not sure I'd want to be thinking "is the car attached?" at peak times.
Hey @Jon Godfrey
Complicated, isn't it?! 😂
Even early adopters who are happy to "do the math" aren't convinced. By the time this becomes mass market it needs to much simpler, as well as transparent.
I’ve been running an EV now (an I-Pace) for 7 months and covered around 9,000 miles. Like many here the majority of charging is at home.
There are frustrations with the charging networks but that is primarily because we have chargers scattered round in ones and occasionally twos, rather than grouped in hubs. There are exceptions, the J14 hub on M1 at Milton Keynes, the new Ionity network slowly creeping into the UK and of course Tesla’s Superchargers. So my priority would be to get hubs. Any new chargers have to offer an open ad hoc charging system I believe. So contactless bank card as Instavolt offer is likely to become more widespread.
so for Pure Planet, I’d suggest working on properly smart home charging systems. Perhaps the car to home charging would help reduce peak demand, or something connected to carbon intensity? Given the flat charge rate, I tend to keep an eye on the grid carbon intensity via an app and charge at low intensity times. I know all PP electricity is renewable anyway but it makes me feel better :-)
There is the Zappi system that is meant to balance home PV generation with car charging but it seems a bit flaky still reading the forums, possibly around communication issues between the unit and the charger. Next generation one from PP?
I’d be happy to let PP access a few kWh from my car if it was plugged in and fully charged and there was a sudden demand for power.
But are you factoring in the huge reduction in fuel cost? I have an EV and am now spending a bit more on the leccy but nothing on petrol resulting in saving money. I too have 4KWp PV's but they could never be enough for me to charge the car.
J2T2;28354I tend to keep an eye on the grid carbon intensity via an app and charge at low intensity times. I know all PP electricity is renewable anyway but it makes me feel better :-)[/QUOTE:

Interesting feedback @J2T2
If you don't mind me asking, which app are you using to check grid intensity?
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I have the Alex Rogers app (not sure if it's available for android, he also does a CO2 modeller app.)
HERE and
HERE
Nice that someone has gone to the trouble of writing the app.
There is an open API available from National Grid, you could get your developers to embed it in the app or on your website.


Marc;28864:
Interesting feedback @J2T2
If you don't mind me asking, which app are you using to check grid intensity?
Hi Marc, I know the question was to another user, but I also keep and eye on the Grid Carbon intensity using an app links for apple or android from gridcarbon.info.

On my iPhone, it produces an view like the one attached..


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Marc;27015:
Hi @Sheps
I've had a look at the Octopus Go offer.
I'm a bit confused.
In one section they say that a smart meter is optional and that it's only available to the first 1,000 customers.
1931

And in another section it states that you have a SMETS1 meter and that they've stopped installing them.
1932


This is exactly the sort of confusion we don't want.
One of the things Pure Planet Members like about us is a our one, simple variable tariff.


I don't think this is confusing at all. It is very clear. I know a number of people with EVs who have switched to it and find it straightforward. One person who is a recent EV owner I know moved to Octopus Go and has since made a helpful YouTube video showing how much they're saving by charging their car during the 5p/kWh timeframe.

There is no confusion around smart meters either. They aren't saying you don't need one, its just from what I've heard from others wanting to switch, they've been so inundated with requests for smart meters, they've got a backlog. I think they too are moving to SMETS2, so there may be some delays. The 1,000 limit was for those who also could get a MyEnergi Zappi charger install as well.

I do really hope PP will think creatively about offering something similar to this, especially as according to the poll, an EV tariff is way in the lead. Octopus's overnight 5p/kWh rate is countered by a 14p/kWh day rate. Sensible use of home appliances, car charging etc. would make this a good option for EV owners on PP. As PP sell us power at the wholesale price, something similar should be possible?

There have been some good suggestions on here, but I'm not always clear if all of them have come from PP members who actually own EVs or just what they think they would like if they did own one.
woz;28994:

There is an open API available from National Grid, you could get your developers to embed it in the app or on your website.


Thanks @woz :)
I've passed that one on. Good call!
Spike;29122:
Hi Marc, I know the question was to another user, but I also keep and eye on the Grid Carbon intensity using an app links for apple or android from gridcarbon.info. On my iPhone, it produces an view like the one attached.. 2088


Thanks @Spike
Looks interesting. I'll check it out :):up:
Yes I agree with that @Marc but from what I am reading, especially in Europe, this is a trend and so probably will happen (in time of course) only when the tech is ready. The communication with the EV is not there yet and I can't see the grid being very quick to adopt.

That said, it would make sense for PP to at least be prepared. As the PP model is based on your purchase prices you would need to change your supply contracts before you could offer an off-peak tariff - so good to have the discussion now, I guess.

I think for me I will look at the best way to harness and store my surplus PV first.

​Good discussion this 🙂
I've been an "EVist" since Sep 17 and reaching 50k miles on my wee leaf 30.
In my opinion a ev tariff won't be the ideal solution because this will mean a more expensive tariff around it and realistically the off peak period won't cover the charge times.
A new 62kw at 7kw/hr would take almost 8hrs to charge.
I would prefer to have an incentive to install pv's with a interest free loan or something similar.
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hi husoi
Since you're now a veteran (so to speak) just out of curiosity, what servicing has been done and how much did they charge for the servicing?
My understanding from what I've read so far, is that aside from wearables like brake pads and pollen filters, there's very little to do on a service, but the dealers are still charging a lot for plugging in a diagnostic and doing little else.
​Is that the case?
Husoi;29778:
I've been an "EVist" since Sep 17 and reaching 50k miles on my wee leaf 30.
In my opinion a ev tariff won't be the ideal solution because this will mean a more expensive tariff around it and realistically the off peak period won't cover the charge times.
A new 62kw at 7kw/hr would take almost 8hrs to charge.
I would prefer to have an incentive to install pv's with a interest free loan or something similar.
Sorry for delay in replying. As others have said, I use the GridCarbon app. Very clear and easy to use. Also there is a National Grid Carbon Intensity Forecast at www.electricityinfo.org/forecast-Carbon-intensity which again is clear and useful.
J2T2;30187:
Sorry for delay in replying. As others have said, I use the GridCarbon app. Very clear and easy to use. Also there is a National Grid Carbon Intensity Forecast at www.electricityinfo.org/forecast-Carbon-intensity which again is clear and useful.


Nice one @J2T2
It's really useful. 🆙
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I have been wondering what people have been charged for EV servicing. Perhaps the “veteran” users can give us some feed back on this. The vehicle does not have an engine as such, needs it’s brakes and lights checking and presumably those parts that need lubrication. As already said, service costs should be less, a lot less, but.....

There may be a tendency for some to create additional costs! Happens now of course. Many dealers supply a tow bar for example at extortionate cost but they don’t fit it themselves. They take the vehicle to somebody who does and then double the cost if not more when they bill the customer. Or a friend of mine, knowing he has a slow puncture talked to his BMW dealer about it who said the tyre would have to be replaced as it was a runflat. The dealer wanted over £200. He took the car to an independent tyre company who advised him he did not have a run flat and charged him a few pounds for the repair.

Dealers will be anxious not to lose profits on servicing costs and we need to be careful that as EVs become ever more popular rip offs do not become prevalent. Like some lawyers will charge a 4 figure sum for say a Lasting Power of Attorney that nearly all can do themselves on line in 15 minutes, dentists who always find a filling to be done!

Perhaps In these pages some sort of spreadsheet could be set up for EV users to record their costs both servicing and mileage. This I think will be useful to us all, existing users and others like me who are contemplating the change. The table would need make and model of vehicle, perhaps date of purchase, miles covered, servicing and charging costs if known.

Also I assume there is some way of using an app to log the times one charges up the vehicle and consequently the cost. Perhaps something for PP to develop or some sort of sensor that detects you have plugged in your car and logs on your account the cost each time.

Now I must get back to my EV. A bike to which I have fitted an electric front wheel!

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